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Yes, in a way. People want to sniff out like minded bigotry and have confirmation for their attitudes and opinions. They can't accept that they are the only ones with these attitudes and surely PC is keeping them isolated... in their minds.
Deserved? no. No more than any kid who hasn't made such remarks as her's deserves to be bullied. But many kids get bullied anyway for any petty reason all over the world. And yet they are told by some, (Mainly those who are against to political correctness) to toughen up and stand up for themselves. She shouldn't get bullied neither should anyone but are you against all bullying?
Yes, I'm against all bullying of people who are exercising the right to express ideas in a permitted public venue.
Maybe not for that specific decision but probably for a part of their lives where they acted like knuckleheads which caused them to run afoul the law. But change is possible and developing the self-awareness to see how foolish they were they can help a younger person choose a different path.
I commend you for your concern with younger black people but the big picture here is that if someone doesn't want to listen to what you have to say then there's nothing you can do about that. Engage those who are willing to listen.
Whether they listen is not the point of the thread. The point of the thread is whether I have the right to speak to them.
Whether they listen is not the point of the thread. The point of the thread is whether I have the right to speak to them.
I don't believe I nor anyone has qustioned your right to speak to them let alone restricted that right. Again, what body of law enforcement has prohibited you from speaking to someone?
I agree with your first paragraph but I sure as heck don't even understand your second, and most particularly the second sentence of that 2nd paragraph.
I don't label myself as a conservative (because I hate labels and ticky tacky little boxes) but I may be closer to being conservative than 'liberal' and I think (if I understand you at all) you are way off the mark there. It is my experience that most conservatives are as vocal as they want to be and say what they want to say (and don't feel constrained at all) but they are much more polite than many who are not politically aligned with conservatism. To my mind, conservatism is about taking the higher ground in most cases (in other words NOT resorting to namecalling, etc. as you seem to imply they want to) - and about trying to discuss things openly without malice and in a productive way. Perhaps you just can't understand people who are generally polite and well spoken? Or perhaps you just want to try to provoke them hoping to get them to explode?
Words have meaning. Words are weapons in the wrong hands. People twist words and ideas around to hurt others. I am against that! If you are liberal, and you do it .. I will tell you I am against it. If you are conservative and do it, I will tell you I am against it. So am I PC or against PC? .. it darned well depends on what is being talked about and how they are talking about it.
This is it in a nutshell. What's weird is that as I get older I find myself being a lot more of a "moderate" than a "liberal" - if we have to have boxes. Mainly that's because the label "liberal" doesn't mean what it did when I was younger (I was born in 1958). One of the reasons for my shift is the (IMHO) out-of-control PC business. I've seen so many "liberals" hand out insult after insult when they are clearly not giving any thought at all to the feelings of the people they are insulting - because they don't think these people's feelings matter. Religion is a good example. I'm a Christian and while I have some liberal social views (or at least they were liberal at one time), I have loved ones who are of a more conservative Christian bent than I am. But they are good people with good, generous hearts who are not unkind to people whose lifestyles they disagree with. Yes there are "haters" out there too - but far from everyone is like that yet they all get lumped together. I have family and friends that are split on a lot of issues but we still love each other.
There is a big difference in good people who may not agree with others on controversial subjects and people who are just being mean. Why can't people be civilized and able to disagree and still be kind to each other? I had an uncle who was a Baptist minister (he passed away a couple of years ago). He held some conservative views but he wouldn't have called anyone names or been mean - yet there are those who called him a hater because he didn't support the gay lifestyle. People told him is was an idiot who believe in a fairy-tale god that was just a make believe story. Why is that okay with the PC crowd?
As for name calling - that's a totally different thing. I remember being called names as a kid and crying about it. But kids can be mean and I grew up. I still don't like to be insulted but I'm not going to cry about it and I certainly won't need therapy as a result. This new idea that people can't be exposed to opinions other than their own without being traumatized is just crazy. How are these people going to function in society? (answer: not very well). And the "acceptable" terms keep changing and if you don't know the correct one for today, you are a bad person. Really? I swear I think some people are just looking for a reason to be offended.
Not an unbiased source, but Mr Greenberg is pretty specific in what he says and there will be untold number of people who can call him out if his facts are materially wrong.
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Originally Posted by gordo
I don't get what this has to do with PC. The girl said a unpopular opinion and people responded with their own opinions which were unpopular to her. If this was in some high school in rural Alabama and the girl said guns should be banned she would get the same response.
Yes, because saying "Religion in the extreme can cause violence and war. Just look at radical Islam" is exactly the same level of discourse as “You white privileged Jewish {female dag}" and “I’ve never hated someone in my life as much as youâ€.
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Originally Posted by phetaroi
Sorta reminds me of back in elementary school in 1960. In our school's mock election, Nixon won in a landslide. That night in the early returns, Nixon was significantly ahead. But my aunt and uncle kept saying, "Just wait. It's early yet."
What your uncle meant was "Don't worry, it is early yet. We can count on Richard Daley to get out the dead vote in Chicago."
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Originally Posted by Ro2113
I think you have severely underestimated the amount of criticism and vitriol that he has gotten.
I think you have severely underestimated the amount of support and kudos that he has gotten.
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Originally Posted by redguard57
At some point I would just let it go. You have freedom of speech but not freedom from consequences. If you take a university class on climate change and get up and say "climate change is fake" there are going to be consequences - failing the class.
Which would be fine if there were incontrovertible evidence for actual warming and incontrovertible evidence for actual causes, but neither is the case. That there was warming over the last hundred years isn't in dispute. What is in dispute is the cause and is it anomalous over a 100k, 1m or multi-million year time patterns.
If a student could present reasonable alternatives and show the holes in the material that was presented in class then he shouldn't be failed for going against the orthodoxy. Plenty of famous scientists were "wrong" before they were right.
Quote:
Originally Posted by redguard57
Elementary schools no longer tell kids to sit "Indian style" which when I first found out I thought was stupid. "They taught me to sit 'Indian Style.' What's wrong with that!?" Now they say "Criss-cross Applesauce." At work a manager was chided for saying "Let's have a Pow-Wow" in reference to some kind of meeting. He was told he couldn't say that anymore. Other than the realization that those terms were a bit condescending to Native Americans, what have I lost in my life by not using them? How am I damaged by that? Not at all. And I can still use them at home if I want.
But are they demeaning or condescending? I get wanting to change sitting "Indian style" because it is kind of stupid, but if someone used the term should they be reprimanded and sent to sensitivity training?
Pow wow I don't find condescending at all. It is a coming together, sometimes also called a meeting. We use other words from other cultures for meeting like "tete a tete" for example. Are we being condescending to the French?
The scrubbing of the language is making it rather drab.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SunGrins
Yes, in a way. People want to sniff out like minded bigotry and have confirmation for their attitudes and opinions. They can't accept that they are the only ones with these attitudes and surely PC is keeping them isolated... in their minds.
I think people can say (almost) anything they want - but it's a matter of how it's said.
I run across a lot of Trump supporters who are only offensive but nuts, and ungrammatical - but I rarely run across a Trump supporter who posts sensibly: I'm voting for Trump, and after extensive reading, here is my reasoning, based on these examples. They always fall back on insults, slurs, and derision.
Pot, meet kettle.
There, that didn't insult, slur or deride you, did it?
I think you have severely underestimated the amount of support and kudos that he has gotten.
So getting some support for this action automatically means that his actions are Politically correct and that hating the USA is in vogue? Again this is your opinion and not undeniable fact. Maybe the issue here is that some people look at every issue and the stances people take on said issue as whether it is politically correct or not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spikett
This is it in a nutshell. What's weird is that as I get older I find myself being a lot more of a "moderate" than a "liberal" - if we have to have boxes. Mainly that's because the label "liberal" doesn't mean what it did when I was younger (I was born in 1958). One of the reasons for my shift is the (IMHO) out-of-control PC business. I've seen so many "liberals" hand out insult after insult when they are clearly not giving any thought at all to the feelings of the people they are insulting - because they don't think these people's feelings matter. Religion is a good example. I'm a Christian and while I have some liberal social views (or at least they were liberal at one time), I have loved ones who are of a more conservative Christian bent than I am. But they are good people with good, generous hearts who are not unkind to people whose lifestyles they disagree with. Yes there are "haters" out there too - but far from everyone is like that yet they all get lumped together. I have family and friends that are split on a lot of issues but we still love each other.
There is a big difference in good people who may not agree with others on controversial subjects and people who are just being mean. Why can't people be civilized and able to disagree and still be kind to each other? I had an uncle who was a Baptist minister (he passed away a couple of years ago). He held some conservative views but he wouldn't have called anyone names or been mean - yet there are those who called him a hater because he didn't support the gay lifestyle. People told him is was an idiot who believe in a fairy-tale god that was just a make believe story. Why is that okay with the PC crowd?
As for name calling - that's a totally different thing. I remember being called names as a kid and crying about it. But kids can be mean and I grew up. I still don't like to be insulted but I'm not going to cry about it and I certainly won't need therapy as a result. This new idea that people can't be exposed to opinions other than their own without being traumatized is just crazy. How are these people going to function in society? (answer: not very well). And the "acceptable" terms keep changing and if you don't know the correct one for today, you are a bad person. Really? I swear I think some people are just looking for a reason to be offended.
If this is true then why does the term "hater" bother you?
And For these folks calling your uncle a "hater", political correctness is the farthest thing from their mind. I'll have to repeat myself again, just because someone has more left-leaning views doesn't automatically make them pro-political correctness.
The problem with PC is exactly the opposite of what you say. The problem is that the PC crowd says something wrong and when you criticize it, you get mindless zombies calling you buzz words like "biggot", "racist", "homophobic" and "islamophobic".
The PC crowd thinks they're above criticism. That is a serious problem because it shuts everyone who wants to have a series talk down. It forces us to not acknowledge or hide that we acknowledge that some religious cults have members who think the entire world should follow their religious law. Yes, this is a problem. No, it should not be encouraged.
As another poster, not all the anti-PC is indeed live and let live but rather what I asserted in my OP. I only use those comments when say someone says gays shouldn't be allowed the right to marr. I've used race-baiting with Trump's comments because many of his comments are dog whistles. Law and order is dog whistle response to black crime. Nixon used that in 1968 in result of the race riots and MLK death riots. Many people say radical Islam a problem but yet want to block ANY Muslims from coming into the country because "they maybe radicalized..." Explain how these aren't anything that can be called for what they are?
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Explain how these aren't anything that can be called for what they are?
