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Singapore, a haven for the rich (home of Facebook co-founder Eduardo Saverin) has a top tax rate of 22%. I think something close to that is a good range as long as it is actually paid on total income/benefits.
Thing is that our tax code is so complicated that the wealthy have used a variety of techniques (defered income, lifestyles underwritten by their companies/trusts. etc.to avoid taxes altogether).
You tell me. A million a year plus? $10 million plus? What's the right amount to take in order to make things fair?
Rich is a relative term. To a guy getting his water from a hole in Somalia, pretty much everybody in the US is "rich".
Exactly and to the guy making 40K a year, the guy making 100K is rich. People for the most part seem to be OK with taxing anyone who makes more than they do at a high level when in reality the guy making 100K is far from rich.
So again, what is your definition of rich for the purpose of discussion in this thread?
The existing setup is more than fine.
The problem is with the complexity - deductions, writeoffs and all that stuff.
The other problem is this - when guys like Trump (probably pays less than 10%) or Romney (pays 15%) play all those games, who do you think makes up the diff?
The answer is:
We "normal" people do and
The rest is debt and deficit.
The question is not how much to tax the rich but how much to tax everyone.
The answer is quite simple. It always amazes me when people make simple things complex - but that is a human tendency.
You calculate this with a simple formula. How much does a modern civilized country cost to operate?
And so, you take a couple of the example countries you may like to model (Denmark, happiest place on earth?) or Sweden or France or UK.......and you see what it takes to run the system.
If you look at advanced countries, you will see a range from a LOW of about 26% to a high of about 50% - that is, taxes to GDP. 50% pays for everything - cradle to grave. No homeless, medical care for all - full boat. 20% pays for a country like Guyana. China collects 22%.
And so - if we decide we want to be on the low end of "socialism" and "civilization", we could set 30% as a goal. If we taxed those making over 400K per year at 30% Federally - and got every penny of it (no tricks, deductions, credits, etc.) we'd be in great shape.
Of course there are a number of "taxes" we all pay that aren't called taxes. For example, we pay about 9K per person per year for inferior health care while other civilized countries pay $5K. So we are each being "taxed" that extra 4K per year.
I think we need to do away with a "honor" tax system because too many American are crooked. It's a fact that people don't see "shorting" the government as a crime or even an ethical failing. We need more use taxes and perhaps a VAT.
I've said this before and will say it again. We (Americans) are selfish. We fight tooth and nail against raising the gas tax (for example) even though gas is cheaper than almost ever before (when inflation is figured in). We know we need the money for roads, bridges, rail, etc - but we'd rather not pay that extra nickel and let our children deal with it after we are dead or not driving any longer.
It's like the plumber says - pay me now or pay me later. In the end life is about living well - it's not about how much money you can sock away without paying taxes on it.
Oh, and the "death tax" is a great thing. The idea that billionaires need to end up breeding vast amounts of non-productive "trust fund junkie" kids is ridiculous. People need an incentive to create, innovate and prosper.
Governments instituted to secure rights cannot tax rights... only privileges.
Ergo, the question is: What privilege is subject to an excise tax if one is rich?
The existing setup is more than fine.
The problem is with the complexity - deductions, writeoffs and all that stuff.
The other problem is this - when guys like Trump (probably pays less than 10%) or Romney (pays 15%) play all those games, who do you think makes up the diff?
The answer is:
We "normal" people do and
The rest is debt and deficit.
The question is not how much to tax the rich but how much to tax everyone.
The answer is quite simple. It always amazes me when people make simple things complex - but that is a human tendency.
You calculate this with a simple formula. How much does a modern civilized country cost to operate?
And so, you take a couple of the example countries you may like to model (Denmark, happiest place on earth?) or Sweden or France or UK.......and you see what it takes to run the system.
If you look at advanced countries, you will see a range from a LOW of about 26% to a high of about 50% - that is, taxes to GDP. 50% pays for everything - cradle to grave. No homeless, medical care for all - full boat. 20% pays for a country like Guyana. China collects 22%.
And so - if we decide we want to be on the low end of "socialism" and "civilization", we could set 30% as a goal. If we taxed those making over 400K per year at 30% Federally - and got every penny of it (no tricks, deductions, credits, etc.) we'd be in great shape.
Of course there are a number of "taxes" we all pay that aren't called taxes. For example, we pay about 9K per person per year for inferior health care while other civilized countries pay $5K. So we are each being "taxed" that extra 4K per year.
I think we need to do away with a "honor" tax system because too many American are crooked. It's a fact that people don't see "shorting" the government as a crime or even an ethical failing. We need more use taxes and perhaps a VAT.
I've said this before and will say it again. We (Americans) are selfish. We fight tooth and nail against raising the gas tax (for example) even though gas is cheaper than almost ever before (when inflation is figured in). We know we need the money for roads, bridges, rail, etc - but we'd rather not pay that extra nickel and let our children deal with it after we are dead or not driving any longer.
It's like the plumber says - pay me now or pay me later. In the end life is about living well - it's not about how much money you can sock away without paying taxes on it.
Oh, and the "death tax" is a great thing. The idea that billionaires need to end up breeding vast amounts of non-productive "trust fund junkie" kids is ridiculous. People need an incentive to create, innovate and prosper.
What it takes to run the system is that EVERYONE pays in. Unlike here where 47% either pay zero Federal Income Tax or get back more money than they paid in. To be like the countries you point to, everyone would need to pay the same fixed percent of their income into Federal taxes. There just aren't enough of the "rich" to carry the whole load. The tradeoff for much higher taxes is, of course, better social safety nets. As long as ALL Americans are will to participate, a model like Denmark's where everyone pays 55.8% in taxes, would work. Although here it could be lower since States partially fund things that are funded on the Federal level in Denmark. For example, education.
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Many corporations just move HQ's to countries where there are low taxes, see the recent Apple Ireland case.
In terms of the very wealthy, they have a right to live where they choose, so can live in Monaco and pay virtually zero tax if they so wish, or live in the Caribbean or other such areas and there are numerous such tax havens globally.
Last edited by Brave New World; 09-13-2016 at 10:47 AM..
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This is your thread
