Are U.S. Presidents Too Reflexively Pro-Russian (enemies, Reagan, suspect)
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I don't know how well that goes with their stirring the pot in Ukraine, Georgia, Lithuania, Latvia, and Estonia, as well as Syria. You seem to be calling all of those places (except maybe Syria) their "historical area."..
Sorry to say that, but you sound ignorant. Or, heavily brainwashed by our shamelessly lying media and anti-russia' propaganda. The russo-georgian war has been started by Georgia. It was investigated and this fact was proved by the Independent European Commission. The Ukrainian coup has been committed with the help of CIA. Lithuania, Latvia, and Estonia have not received even a tiny real threat from Putin's Russia. Assad as the legitimate president of Syria invited Russia to fight ISIS. So Russia is legally there.
So what "their stirring the pot" you're talking about?
Sorry to say that, but you sound ignorant. Or, heavily brainwashed by our shamelessly lying media and anti-russia' propaganda. The russo-georgian war has been started by Georgia. It was investigated and this fact was proved by the Independent European Commission. The Ukrainian coup has been committed with the help of CIA. Lithuania, Latvia, and Estonia have not received even a tiny real threat from Putin's Russia. Assad as the legitimate president of Syria invited Russia to fight ISIS. So Russia is legally there.
So what "their stirring the pot" you're talking about?
So Russia is the knight in shining armor and somehow winds up in imperial control in all of these situations? This is very much the way that Eastern Europe was taken over after WW II. Stir up local trouble and then move in.
The article in the OP was quoted to show that Obama is warning Trump to be on guard with Putin. I did not fact check the article though I agree with its direction. I did qualify that the blog is "right wing" to show that I am not treating it as a 100% valid source of information. But that blog does illustrate at least the opening naivete in many administrations.
We gave up strategically important nuclear-tipped missiles in Turkey. And apparently with undue haste.
It may have been withdrawn. It was never voted on.The Soviet Union also "worked" with Carter on a joint Middle East communique that alarmed both Anwar Sadat and Menachem Begin; not an easy accomplisment.
As a result of respecting him.
Chummy enough that he walked out on Gorbachev in Reykjavik.
Reassurance to a little girl is not very convincing as a position statement. I bet Andropov likes puppies as well.
The US was planning to mothball the arsenal in Turkey, anyway. Undue haste? Are you saying the hawkish alternative would have been preferable?
The US Senate chose not to ratify SALT II.
I do agree with you that the new President-elect has a huge learning curve ahead. OTOH, dialing back the NATO buildup, as advocated by some of our C-D members, may not be a bad idea, though that's not where the new Prez is headed. Huge learning curve.
You are not supporting true American ideals by demonizing Russia. Russia is a soveriegn
country with a sovereign PEOPLE who want to stay in charge over their historical area,
not sell it out to foreigners like it was in the 1990s, and not integrate into the One World
Order. The United States and Britain are not powerful enough to overthrow Russia like
they did Iraq, Libya, Syria, Iran (in the past) and all other places who resist the formation
of a One-World judeo-masonic pyramid scheme. Do not let them manipulate your mind.
Russia is an oligarchy which has distributed enough scraps from their only real source of wealth - oil and gas - that the population, formerly used to starvation - is now happy with the situation.
Many of the places I live and travel are now populated by Russians - the top 1% - buying real estate and companies and trying to get out of that place as much as possible.
25% of Russian males die before age 55.
Let's not sit here and pretend Russia is China or Japan or even Brazil (all of those have some sort of varied economies).
It is an oil oligarchy plain and simple.
Whilst I agree that we should not make ANY countries our enemy by design (except those like N. Korea, perhaps, which are not approachable)...... I abhor the idea of "looking up" to Russia as an example of anything.
Russia is free to be Russia. At the same time - since they do have the nukes and other stuff - we should maintain a certain separation as we would with most any nation that doesn't embrace either western or civil society (either/or - China, for example, wants people to have things and good long lives, etc.)...
Your idea of One World is exactly opposite of reality! Obama is saying NOT to cozy up to the Russian Oligarchs...while you seem to want him to.....
So Russia is the knight in shining armor and somehow winds up in imperial control in all of these situations?
Russia, as any other country who cares what's happenning wrong on its borders, is interested to stabilize situation in their neighbour countries. Nothing wrong with it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbgusa
This is very much the way that Eastern Europe was taken over after WW II. Stir up local trouble and then move in.
Again, Russia didn't stir up any local trouble. Stop spreading this BS from the globalist media who knowingly perverts and misinterprets the events. If you would honestly take a look at those "local troubles", you have would noticed that the trouble started after USA came in the game.
Why there are no any problems between Russia and Armenia, between Russia and Turkmenistan, between Russia and Azerbaijan, between Russia and Kirghizia, between Russia and Mongolia etc.?
The answer is very simple - Russia is not stirring up any tensions with her neighbours. Someone else creates it. And every sane people with a little brain knows who is it : Owned by bankers and NWO globalists the Foreign policy of the US, who meddles in many independent states, topples legitimate govts, changes regime, orchestrates coups, instignates civil wars, bombs civilians and so on... The USA Foreign policy works for the globalist agenda, not for american people.
But sheeple will say that Russia is responsible for that.
Russia is an oligarchy which has distributed enough scraps from their only real source of wealth - oil and gas - that the population, formerly used to starvation - is now happy with the situation.
Many of the places I live and travel are now populated by Russians - the top 1% - buying real estate and companies and trying to get out of that place as much as possible.
25% of Russian males die before age 55.
Let's not sit here and pretend Russia is China or Japan or even Brazil (all of those have some sort of varied economies).
It is an oil oligarchy plain and simple.
Whilst I agree that we should not make ANY countries our enemy by design (except those like N. Korea, perhaps, which are not approachable)...... I abhor the idea of "looking up" to Russia as an example of anything.
Russia is free to be Russia. At the same time - since they do have the nukes and other stuff - we should maintain a certain separation as we would with most any nation that doesn't embrace either western or civil society (either/or - China, for example, wants people to have things and good long lives, etc.)...
Your idea of One World is exactly opposite of reality! Obama is saying NOT to cozy up to the Russian Oligarchs...while you seem to want him to.....
At least a debate should make SOME sense.
Reading your post I started to realize that many people got their education from CNN, internet comments and speeches of the president who is notorious loser and knucklehead.
The United States is very much an oligarchy.
Winners and losers are chosen by the monied-elite, they place
their hand-picked and groomed, and promoted "icons" in charge
of billions for a purpose. Nothing happens by accident and most
which has happened concerning who owns and runs the tech companies,
banking establishment and most other sectors is by plan and appointment.
Concerning Russia, my message is right along the mainline of what used
to be American ideology, before it was usurped by liars.
John Quincy Adams's Warning Against the Search for "Monsters to Destroy," 1821
And now, friends and countrymen, if the wise and learned philosophers of the elder world, the first observers of nutation and aberration, the discoverers of maddening ether and invisible planets, the inventors of Congreve rockets and Shrapnel shells, should find their hearts disposed to enquire what has America done for the benefit of mankind? Let our answer be this: America, with the same voice which spoke herself into existence as a nation, proclaimed to mankind the inextinguishable rights of human nature, and the only lawful foundations of government. America, in the assembly of nations, since her admission among them, has invariably, though often fruitlessly, held forth to them the hand of honest friendship, of equal freedom, of generous reciprocity. She has uniformly spoken among them, though often to heedless and often to disdainful ears, the language of equal liberty, of equal justice, and of equal rights. She has, in the lapse of nearly half a century, without a single exception, respected the independence of other nations while asserting and maintaining her own. She has abstained from interference in the concerns of others, even when conflict has been for principles to which she clings, as to the last vital drop that visits the heart. She has seen that probably for centuries to come, all the contests of that Aceldama the European world, will be contests of inveterate power, and emerging right. Wherever the standard of freedom and Independence has been or shall be unfurled, there will her heart, her benedictions and her prayers be. But she goes not abroad, in search of monsters to destroy. She is the well-wisher to the freedom and independence of all. She is the champion and vindicator only of her own. She will commend the general cause by the countenance of her voice, and the benignant sympathy of her example. She well knows that by once enlisting under other banners than her own, were they even the banners of foreign independence, she would involve herself beyond the power of extrication, in all the wars of interest and intrigue, of individual avarice, envy, and ambition, which assume the colors and usurp the standard of freedom. The fundamental maxims of her policy would insensibly change from liberty to force.... She might become the dictatress of the world. She would be no longer the ruler of her own spirit....
[America's] glory is not dominion, but liberty. Her march is the march of the mind. She has a spear and a shield: but the motto upon her shield is, Freedom, Independence, Peace. This has been her Declaration: this has been, as far as her necessary intercourse with the rest of mankind would permit, her practice.
The United States is very much an oligarchy.
Winners and losers are chosen by the monied-elite, they place
their hand-picked and groomed, and promoted "icons" in charge
of billions for a purpose. Nothing happens by accident and most
which has happened concerning who owns and runs the tech companies,
banking establishment and most other sectors is by plan and appointment.
.
We are definitely a plutocracy and there are some leftover tinges of oligarchy....but, please, at least make some apt comparisons.
1. Our men live 10 years longer. So we are obviously distributing more "scraps" to the masses.
2. Wasn't Yahoo founded by an Asian with no ties to the past? How about Tesla, SpaceX, PayPal, etc - a S. African immigrant? I could go on and on and on. Was Steve Jobs, who built the most valuable company in the history of the world, from the Mayflower?
In Russia, Putin would look at those companies (which would never exist anyway) and decide whether to steal them, lock up the founder or kill him.
Take off the tinfoil hat. Measurements matter. Russia has a smaller economy than Italy.
If I buy your theory that "nothing happens by accident", then the only conclusion I can come to is that the "masters" in the USA are benevolent and want us all to live longer and have more of the basics of life.
No doubt the USA is screwed up. Our system has been gamed by corporations and the pols who are controlled by them. But, again, measurements matter .
As far as what Adams says - I agree. I and others are not saying to fight Russia or invade Russia. What we are saying is that we shouldn't cuddle up to them and tell them that their "lack of freedom and liberty" is a good thing and should be admired. It's scary that the incoming Admin seems to be of this mind (or, more realistically, they have dollar signs in their eyes and can be bought cheaply).
We are definitely a plutocracy and there are some leftover tinges of oligarchy....but, please, at least make some apt comparisons.**************
As far as what Adams says - I agree. I and others are not saying to fight Russia or invade Russia. What we are saying is that we shouldn't cuddle up to them and tell them that their "lack of freedom and liberty" is a good thing and should be admired. It's scary that the incoming Admin seems to be of this mind (or, more realistically, they have dollar signs in their eyes and can be bought cheaply).
Excellent post, which I repped. I agree that "jaw jaw is better than war war." See To jaw-jaw is always better than to war-war. - Winston Churchill. That does not mean that we need to adulate leaders and societies abotu which there is little to admire or defend the undefendable.
Russia has, since being cobbled together by the Czars and later ruled by Communists or oligarchs veered between chaos and dictatorship. Vodka has been the glue that holds the country together. The better people, including my ancestors on my mother's side fled from that hellhole in the 1890's. Others fled from the not much better Austro-Hungarian Empire. There is a reason that the more motivated people got out when the getting was good.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
