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Old 01-19-2017, 02:17 PM
eok
 
6,684 posts, read 4,248,190 times
Reputation: 8520

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ro2113 View Post
Um... they are working to make it legal. Moral watchdogs (hypocrites) are the ones trying to figjt the legalization of Mariljuana.
If marijuana advocates don't have what it takes to make it legal, that's their problem, not the problem of anyone who stands in their way. People who want to solve problems in spite of other people being obstacles, either find ways around those obstacles, or just remain abject failures due to their own incompetence.
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Old 01-19-2017, 02:17 PM
 
Location: Myrtle Creek, Oregon
15,293 posts, read 17,674,951 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoByFour View Post
Hard drugs should not be criminal offenses. The users have serious issues that prison is not going to fix.

But that being said, they cannot be molly-coddled. There has got to be both a carrot and a stick. The stick is not jail but it needs to be some loss of freedom, something to provide a dis-incentive to use. Of course then you read about the Philippines, where death squads are killing drug users. Apparently there has been a huge surge of addicts signing up for rehab there. Makes you wonder....
The main advantage to regulating hard drug sales is that there are fewer dealers handing out free samples to kids to build a customer base. The current free market in drugs has a number of drawbacks, including the nonstandard or impure dosages that kill people. Make recreational drugs available through pharmacies and you save lives, reduce street violence, and bankrupt the drug cartels. Portugal reduced addiction by 50% with that strategy.

We have been fighting the War on Drugs ever since Nixon declared it 50 years ago, and we have lost the war continually for 50 years. It is insane to do something over and over expecting a different result. It's time to change our strategy.
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Old 01-19-2017, 02:21 PM
eok
 
6,684 posts, read 4,248,190 times
Reputation: 8520
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe90 View Post
Education should be based on truth, not emotions. Drugs aren't good or bad, they're just drugs.
Illegal drugs are bad because they're illegal. Income from them supports organized crime. In a crime-infested country, people need to pay more attention to crime and not do things to support it.
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Old 01-19-2017, 02:25 PM
eok
 
6,684 posts, read 4,248,190 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Caldwell View Post
We have been fighting the War on Drugs ever since Nixon declared it 50 years ago, and we have lost the war continually for 50 years. It is insane to do something over and over expecting a different result. It's time to change our strategy.
The first step towards winning is to convince more people to join the fight and fewer people to be traitors. A 50 year war in which half the population are traitors, has very little chance to succeed. Unless we could do something about the traitors. Such as put them in a concentration camp for the duration of the war.
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Old 01-19-2017, 02:51 PM
 
8,011 posts, read 8,204,319 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eok View Post
If marijuana advocates don't have what it takes to make it legal, that's their problem, not the problem of anyone who stands in their way. People who want to solve problems in spite of other people being obstacles, either find ways around those obstacles, or just remain abject failures due to their own incompetence.
This is really dense. Why don't you write a instructional booklet of how easy for regular people to convince lawmakers to change federal laws. Especially when those many of those lawmakers are against changing this law in particular. In fact your understanding of our drug issue is childishly simplistic.
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Old 01-19-2017, 03:02 PM
eok
 
6,684 posts, read 4,248,190 times
Reputation: 8520
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ro2113 View Post
This is really dense. Why don't you write a instructional booklet of how easy for regular people to convince lawmakers to change federal laws. Especially when those many of those lawmakers are against changing this law in particular. In fact your understanding of our drug issue is childishly simplistic.
People who want to change laws should write their own book, and find their own ways to succeed at it. That's one of the biggest differences between successful people and abject failures. Failures blame everything on other people, and don't take responsibility for their own incompetence.

But regardless of how hard or easy it is to change drug laws, we need some way to convince people to obey the laws we have, until such time as those laws get changed. A concentration camp in the desert, able to hold millions of people, is probably the most cost effective way to convince them.
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Old 01-19-2017, 03:50 PM
 
8,011 posts, read 8,204,319 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eok View Post
People who want to change laws should write their own book, and find their own ways to succeed at it. That's one of the biggest differences between successful people and abject failures. Failures blame everything on other people, and don't take responsibility for their own incompetence.

But regardless of how hard or easy it is to change drug laws, we need some way to convince people to obey the laws we have, until such time as those laws get changed. A concentration camp in the desert, able to hold millions of people, is probably the most cost effective way to convince them.
So essentially you are of no help and really have no solutions and you continue to push this concentration camp. And know it is not a cost effective solution.
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Old 01-19-2017, 05:59 PM
 
10,225 posts, read 7,577,745 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bawac34618 View Post
First of all, here is my stance on the drug war. I think marijuana is a relatively harmless drug that should be legal. It's less addictive than alcohol and tobacco and it's popularity helps keep the drug cartels in business. Legalizing marijuana nationwide would be a huge blow to the black market. This also could have a side-effect of making harder, more dangerous drugs less available. One of the ways that marijuana actually is a "gateway drug" is that people go to their dealers for weed and sometimes are offered harder stuff. This wouldn't happen in a society with legal marijuana. Studies also show that teen marijuana use is dropping in legal states, which makes sense being that dealers will sell it to anyone while to get it legal you have to be 21 years of age or older.

However, I don't think the same approach that is best for marijuana should be applied to cocaine, heroine, or meth. These drugs, especially heroine and meth, have a much greater potential for dependence and to destroy a person's life than marijuana. Like marijuana however, prohibition doesn't work and these drugs are still widely available despite their illegality. Education doesn't work either as kids are taught in elementary school the dangers of these drugs yet so many still try them anyways. With meth in particular, it's game over for many even after one use. If there is any drug that absolutely should be eradicated, it's meth.

I don't think the current approach is working however. Going after users and treating them as criminals doesn't do anybody any good. Addicts to drugs like meth and heroin are actually victims. They took the bait and fell for a false promise that has whittled away at their entire lives. Instead of being thrown in overcrowded jails, users of these drugs should be helped to get off the drug and re-assimilated into productive society. The current policy of jail time followed by a felony offense that makes them unemployable seems to almost encourage addicts to return to the pipe once they get out of prison. At the same time, you cannot legalize and regulate these drugs because they are too dangerous. They must be kept out of the hands of as many people as possible until they are completely eradicated.

What do you think is the best means to solve this problem?
Can't.

The Chinese were getting zoned out in opium dens centuries ago. Native Americans were getting hi when smoking pipes. Humans have been smoking and consuming drugs for as long as humans have been writing history.

Drugs include caffeine, alcohol, tobacco, all sorts of herbs, manufactured modern drugs, heroin, coke, meth, crack, etc.

Personally, I think it's in the human dna to consume or smoke anything that makes us feel good. It's the same premise as eating sweets: that's how early humans could tell what and what not to eat. It's in our genes to like sweet.

The only thing we CAN do is educate. When you point out the bad effects of CERTAIN drugs, then people may choose to do less harmful drugs, or non-addictive ones.

Our govt doesn't have a big budget for advertising and drug education, though.
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Old 01-19-2017, 06:20 PM
 
Location: Top of the South, NZ
22,216 posts, read 21,661,538 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eok View Post
Illegal drugs are bad because they're illegal. Income from them supports organized crime. In a crime-infested country, people need to pay more attention to crime and not do things to support it.
Laws shouldn't encourage crime either.

Banning murder/theft etc doesn't lead to an increase in crime, while banning drugs does. That's because the matter of human rights is involved.
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Old 01-19-2017, 06:26 PM
 
Location: Marin County, CA
787 posts, read 643,969 times
Reputation: 869
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe90 View Post
Education should be based on truth, not emotions. Drugs aren't good or bad, they're just drugs.
education in schools should be unbiased and based on truth. Education at home should be founded on truth, but emotion is allowed to influence the style and main message of education, it's your own offspring for crying out loud. Never mind what's legal, it's immoral, disrespectful, and unethical to attempt to have a say in how (responsible) parents raise their children.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eok View Post
People who want to change laws should write their own book, and find their own ways to succeed at it. That's one of the biggest differences between successful people and abject failures. Failures blame everything on other people, and don't take responsibility for their own incompetence.

But regardless of how hard or easy it is to change drug laws, we need some way to convince people to obey the laws we have, until such time as those laws get changed. A concentration camp in the desert, able to hold millions of people, is probably the most cost effective way to convince them.
Being accountable and taking responsibility for your own incompetence isn't a beeline to success. If it was, I would be a billionaire right now. Being a respectful, honest, accountable, tax paying citizen with an immaculate moral compass doesn't put a cent in my pocket. I am subject to the same grind, and internal company politics as the rest in the rat race.
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