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This is true. The feminism I've known has always insisted it's universalist: equality for everyone. In the early decades, the women's rights movement was also for men's rights: shared custody or even full custody for fathers of children in divorce, adoption rights, and other concerns in which men traditionally had faced discrimination.
I don't know what "neo-feminism" is, btw. Could someone explain that? It's come up a couple of times in this thread. What makes it "neo-"?
The suffragettes who started the movement were about equality.
The new (second wave/third wave) NEOfeminists are all about being BETTER than equal. More rights than men. More special treatment, degrading men, motherhood and marriage. Hypocrisy -- look I'll dress like a hooker but you BETTER NOT LOOK AT ME THAT'S DEGRADING. I'll talk like a truck driver, but you better not use that language on me. Man and a woman up for a promotion, same credentials, the woman is more entitled to the job because she is a woman, she deserves it. They consider women who want to have kids and stay home as dumb morons who couldn't get a job and didn't know enough to use BC or get an abortion, poor things. They consider all married women trapped and kept, under the thumb of domineering brutes, and need to be saved.
That type of attitude. It has gone above and beyond simply being "equal" to being better and needing everyone else to think the exact way that they do.
I'm all for equality. But today's feminism? I'll pass.
It isn't disingenuous, to say you misunderstand. If you did understand you wouldn't presume that someone with a women's studies degree is going to "be an activist". My sister has a PsyD with a minor in women's studies. She works for human services as a social worker. She helps find services for senior citizens, and not just elderly women.
Honestly, it IS disingenuous to say that all research used in a department is for activism just because of the name of the department. My daughter is an oceanographer and works in the department that produces most of the climate science for her large R1 uni. Do you think all of the research that comes out of that department is used for climate science activism? It isn't. My daughter's research is used to develop real time predictions of currents for the coast guard and other agencies in order to better find lost ships or even people who have fallen overboard. And that is just one example. There are many, many examples of research that is used for things other than activism, even from the women's studies department, not the least of which is the age old notion of "pursuit of knowledge for its own sake".
Last edited by toosie; 01-18-2017 at 07:38 PM..
Reason: deleted quoted post
I've noticed that woman raising boys today are more aware of this from the backlash that boys/young men get. They just can't win.
They hold a door open: They get yelled at: I'm a big strong woman, what are you calling me weak??
They don't hold a door open: They get yelled at: What are you stupid? So rude!! Can't you see I'm a lady?
What are feminists fighting for today? What are they really, truly fighting for? Please explain how women are held back from achievement in today's world. The truth is they aren't. They can do whatever they want, whenever they want. Feminists are fighting because they want to be BETTER than equal.
Last edited by toosie; 01-18-2017 at 07:39 PM..
Reason: deleted quoted post
I've noticed that woman raising boys today are more aware of this from the backlash that boys/young men get. They just can't win.
They hold a door open: They get yelled at: I'm a big strong woman, what are you calling me weak??
They don't hold a door open: They get yelled at: What are you stupid? So rude!! Can't you see I'm a lady?
I raised a boy, neither of the above ever happened. Out of curiosity, I asked my husband, has never happened to him either.
I am not saying that they do no happen, I just think the notion that every time someone opens a door (or doesn't) for someone they get yelled at is baloney. Btw, I open the door for people all the time, it isn't a function of gender, it is a function of being polite and I am a feminist.
Nope, not mad at all, you are reading into my post.
What are feminists fighting for today? What are they really, truly fighting for? Please explain how women are held back from achievement in today's world. The truth is they aren't. They can do whatever they want, whenever they want. Feminists are fighting because they want to be BETTER than equal.
But feminism isn't just about equality under the law, even though that's a big part of it. Feminism is about social and political equality as well. Look at how women's health care is treated by a predominantly male legislature. Look at how there's a predominately male legislature. Look at how sexual assault is often diminished as a woman either lying about it to get a guy in trouble or deserving it for wearing/doing the wrong thing. Look at how women's issues and interests are dismissed as being less interesting or more frivolous than equally boring and unimportant things that appeal to men. Look at how assertive, strong women are called ****** and ball-busters, when men with the same qualities in business and policy are praised for them. In many ways in our society women are treated unequally, even if women are equal on paper. Bringing more awareness and righting the wrongs that still exist what feminism is for.
The suffragettes who started the movement were about equality.
The new (second wave/third wave) NEOfeminists are all about being BETTER than equal. More rights than men. More special treatment, degrading men, motherhood and marriage. Hypocrisy -- look I'll dress like a hooker but you BETTER NOT LOOK AT ME THAT'S DEGRADING. I'll talk like a truck driver, but you better not use that language on me. Man and a woman up for a promotion, same credentials, the woman is more entitled to the job because she is a woman, she deserves it. They consider women who want to have kids and stay home as dumb morons who couldn't get a job and didn't know enough to use BC or get an abortion, poor things. They consider all married women trapped and kept, under the thumb of domineering brutes, and need to be saved.
That type of attitude. It has gone above and beyond simply being "equal" to being better and needing everyone else to think the exact way that they do.
I'm all for equality. But today's feminism? I'll pass.
You seem to have decided that you get to decide who is and is not a feminist.
I am married, I am a feminist.
I have children, I am a feminist.
I am not interest in special treatment, I am a feminist.
I am not supporting degrading men, I am a feminist.
I do not dress like a hooker, I am a feminist.
I do not care if anyone else dresses like a hooker, I am a feminist.
I do not care if people curse, but I do not think anyone should be cursed AT, I am a feminist.
In fact, having friends, family, co-workers, and many other women in my life who call themselves feminists, and proudly at that, I have never met a single person like the one you describe above. Now, maybe you see this everywhere, but I suspect you are the exception not the rule.
I raised a boy, neither of the above ever happened. Out of curiosity, I asked my husband, has never happened to him either.
I am not saying that they do no happen, I just think the notion that every time someone opens a door (or doesn't) for someone they get yelled at is baloney. Btw, I open the door for people all the time, it isn't a function of gender, it is a function of being polite and I am a feminist.
I agree it's common courtesy, and we hold doors open for everybody. However, I've witnessed both happen. It's sad. And it's why we are raising a lost generation of men, who cannot win for losing. Neofeminism hurts both men and women. It does not help anyone.
Nope, not mad at all, you are reading into my post.
What are feminists fighting for today? What are they really, truly fighting for? Please explain how women are held back from achievement in today's world. The truth is they aren't. They can do whatever they want, whenever they want. Feminists are fighting because they want to be BETTER than equal.
Well that isn't true.
In my field, despite the fact that women get more undergraduate degrees than men and typically with higher achievement, they are less likely to even get into a PhD program.
People, and society, are still saying things like "girls are not good at math or science" to young girls in an attempt to push them to more "girly" pass times. And at the same time, if a young boy plays with dolls or is too interested in cooking, he is treated the same.
My daughter is 23 yrs old now, 4 yrs ago, when she was the second highest ranked student in her department she volunteered as a tutor to students in those classes. A professor told her it was best to "let the guys do it" because the field is mostly male and no one wants to learn from a woman who thinks they "know more than the man".
My friends husband is still looked down on for being a stay at home parent because it is a "woman's job".
Because, even in this day and age, and despite being a feminist, I still remind my daughter to be careful walking home from parties at night, and don't worry at all about the same for the boys. She is not small, she is 5'10 150lbs of lean muscle from a lifetime of surfing, and 4 years of juditsu. The boys in my family, are only a little taller. Despite that, they are safer walking around than she is, and that is a sad fact.
It IS disingenuous and women's studies mostly produces activists whether you want to believe that or not. I'm also not at all interested in your long, boring personal narratives about your family members and their jobs. You are obviously too close to your sister and daughter to have an objective view of Women's Studies. I said I wasn't responding to that Ruth_4_Truth because she is being disingenuous and I'm not going to engage with people who try to pick up and argue her points either.
You keep saying that that women's studies purose is to make activists and have produced nothing except your opinion supporting such a silly statement. I have at least provided anecdotes of real people. Do you have a source that shows activists as the main career path because here are some actual sources.
For every one activist there are another 5 nurses, doctors, teachers, business managers, etc.
Sorry but making things up, isn't just disingenuous, it is intellectually dishonest. And to be blunt, it is beyond disingenuous and dishonest, to come to a debate forum and then state you are not going to "engage" with those who are on the other side. If you want an echo chamber there are forums for that, this is not one of those.
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