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The key is that one study studying one remedy at a time is how research should be done. Get a group of people together who report the same symptoms. Get their homeopathic "diagnosis" - only those who are "prescribed" the same remedy are included in this particular study. Then give half of them the remedy in a double-blind way so that neither the giver or the patient knows who got the placebo...measure results - and not just "do you feel better" - but measure the actual physical symptoms of the ailment. Then see if there is a difference between baseline and after treatment and between placebo and treatment. An even better and stronger study is if you then remove the remedy or placebo and see what happens to symptoms then.
THAT'S how real research is done. No excuses for "everyone is different" or "it's too complicated" or "there's no way to prove if it works". If there is nothing systematic in the treatment and only subjective judgments are made by the practitioner then there is no science behind it...just voodoo woowoo.
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Originally Posted by in_newengland
As some here have stated, it is not really possible, or at least it would be extremely difficult to prove that homeopathy works. It does work though and it is not a sugar pill or a placebo. I guess we could argue until we are blue in the face.
It's not going to cure cancer or prevent a heart attack, but for minor issues, if you can find the correct remedy that works for you--it's wonderful. Can't be proven, not yet anyway, but who cares.
If it is impossible to prove that it works, then it is not logical to state that it DOES, especially outside a placebo effect.
It IS possible to prove, given the money to set up a study, a good experimental design, and enough subjects to include. If no one is willing to fund such a study then I'd have to say homeopathy is UNPROVEN. And even you with your clear sympathies toward homeopathy say it's not going to cure cancer or prevent a heart attack - some conventional medical treatments can do just that.
People can do whatever they want but that's burying your head in the sand saying "I can't hear you, I can't hear you" as loud as you can.
Too bad that people who truly believe in homeopathy won't just use it on minor stuff that they'd live through anyway - they'll use it for lethal infections and cancer rather than widely accepted treatments with research behind them. And they'll pay with their lives.
Maybe you should read her posts again. She already knows with certainty what homeopathic pain remedies work for her because she has tried them and prefers them to non-homeopathic remedies. That is her choice and her right. I really don't understand why you don't "get" that.
I do not recommend pharmaceutical meds to anyone (it's illegal to do that here unless you're a doctor) and I don't recommend or use homeopathic remedies (I use something else that is alternative energy healing) so I'm not a good candidate for suggesting pharmaceutical or homeopathic remedies. But I'm good at recommending alternative healers and medical practitioners.
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Since this is a debate forum, I will posit that you do not understand pain control. A substance that may control pain in one situation, say a mild headache, may not in another, say a smashed finger. This is true of pharmaceuticals as well as homeopathics.
....... and no study shows any cellular pathway for these treatments to work, modern physics offers no mechanism for "water memory" or "vibration" theory.......
Be patient grasshopper and give physics the time it needs. Modern physics is still a new thing in its infancy and some day in the future it will catch up and understand what ancient healers knew and passed down from aeons ago.
Since this is a debate forum, I will posit that you do not understand pain control. A substance that may control pain in one situation, say a mild headache, may not in another, say a smashed finger. This is true of pharmaceuticals as well as homeopathics.
I have not recommended anything.
In my way of thinking, when somebody shows clear condescension and criticism of another person who chooses homeopathic remedies and was assumed to not be prepared with "real pain meds" (your words, not mine) that's a recommendation to use "real pain meds" instead of homeopathics. You still haven't explained what those "real pain meds" are though, so maybe that's a way of avoiding making a recommendation and leaving the guess work to others.
You can be my guest and posit all you want about my understanding of pain control but that's just you making another assumption about somebody else that you know nothing about.
In my way of thinking, when somebody shows clear condescension and criticism of another person who chooses homeopathic remedies and was assumed to not be prepared with "real pain meds" (your words, not mine) that's a recommendation to use "real pain meds" instead of homeopathics. You still haven't explained what those "real pain meds" are though, so maybe that's a way of avoiding making a recommendation and leaving the guess work to others.
You can be my guest and posit all you want about my understanding of pain control but that's just you making another assumption about somebody else that you know nothing about.
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I don't know why you are being so hostile. You know as well as I do what "real pain meds" are. There are plenty of both OTC and prescription meds for pain control. The prescription meds are generally reserved for more severe pain. You seem to not understand that there are gradations of pain. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pain_scale
I don't know why you are being so hostile. .......
I realize you don't understand why - but you are right about hostilities in this thread and I apologize for my part in that. This whole discussion and several of the responses seems to me like just another witch hunt by people seeking to control and take away the freedoms of other people, and that is what has made me feel hostile. That's not good for the mind, body or spirit of myself or anyone else participating in the discussion. Again I apologize and I'll go away now.
SQ2010, before I go I'll say this to you. I do understand your concern about innocents being harmed. The recent example of the little boy in Alberta who needlessly died from meningitis because he was religiously treated with unsuitable alternative treatments at home by ignorant, fanatical parents with misguided principles who refused to take their dying child to ER until it was too late to save him is a travesty that weighs heavily on the hearts of all sincere healers with integrity in the alternative health fields.
In this society where we have really good, modern physicians and universal health care and there would have been absolutely no cost to the parents to have had him attended by physicians, and the boy would probably have been saved if the parents had taken him to physicians in timely fashion, there is absolutely no excuse for that kind of willful neglect and ignorance.
But I put the onus of guilt on those ignorant parents and others like them who have their own religious agendas and weird principles about privacy and secrecy and refuse to be properly informed. I do not put the onus on any alternative healers, who if any had actually met the child and been aware of the real situation with the sick child and his paranoid, secretive parents, would refuse to treat, recommend or sell remedies and would immediately say "Your child is extremely ill and dying - take your child to the ER right now, this minute".
I'll try to address all the questions/complaints raised above.
I have used homeopathy for 30 years. I only buy Boiron blue/white tubes with the pellets and use them according to the homeopathic repertory and materia medica. For most acute conditions, I already know the tried and true remedies.
I used the finger smashing example at a remote location because I know that remedy works (from experience) for that sort of nerve pain. Yes, I also carry a first aid kit, but the only traditional pain reliever I may use is Anacin, the rest are homeopathic remedies and essential oils. We haven't needed Advil, Motrin, Tylenol.
We have not experienced any side effects from homeopathic remedies, but our family has had bad side effects from a flu shot, cold medicines, vaccinations and birth control pills (near fatal).
It was actually my son's chronic ear infections (13) and increased resistance to antibiotics that led me to agree to try homeopathy. 60 days of Seclor would not knock them out and tubes would not work.
Please consider: Just because a study says the remedy doesn't work better than a placebo doesn't mean it's not working effectively for those of us educated on how to use them.
Your having used homeopathy for thirty years does not prove it works better than placebo, and by the principles of homeopathy you should not be choosing a remedy for yourself. You should go to a "practitioner" who will have a lengthy conversation with you and then choose one for you.
Many doctors now do not treat ear infections at all. Most are viral, not bacterial, and antibiotics do not work.
As kids get older, they usually have fewer problems with ear infections.
Just because a remedy is "working effectively for those of us educated on how to use them" does not mean that the way it works is not due to placebo effect.
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Originally Posted by Zoisite
SQ2010, before I go I'll say this to you. I do understand your concern about innocents being harmed. The recent example of the little boy in Alberta who needlessly died from meningitis because he was religiously treated with unsuitable alternative treatments at home by ignorant, fanatical parents with misguided principles who refused to take their dying child to ER until it was too late to save him is a travesty that weighs heavily on the hearts of all sincere healers with integrity in the alternative health fields.
In this society where we have really good, modern physicians and universal health care and there would have been absolutely no cost to the parents to have had him attended by physicians, and the boy would probably have been saved if the parents had taken him to physicians in timely fashion, there is absolutely no excuse for that kind of willful neglect and ignorance.
But I put the onus of guilt on those ignorant parents and others like them who have their own religious agendas and weird principles about privacy and secrecy and refuse to be properly informed. I do not put the onus on any alternative healers, who if any had actually met the child and been aware of the real situation with the sick child and his paranoid, secretive parents, would refuse to treat, recommend or sell remedies and would immediately say "Your child is extremely ill and dying - take your child to the ER right now, this minute".
In the case you are describing a naturopath did indeed dispense for the child who died and did so without seeing him at all. I would prefer not to discuss naturopathy here, because although they use homeopathy, they do not use it exclusively.
The issue I have with homeopathy for children is that there is insufficient oversight of quality control, as witness the problem with the teething pills. If you are going to use a poison to make a homeopathic product you need to be dang sure there is none left in anything you sell, especially if it is likely to be given to a child.
I realize you don't understand why - but you are right about hostilities in this thread and I apologize for my part in that. This whole discussion and several of the responses seems to me like just another witch hunt by people seeking to control and take away the freedoms of other people, and that is what has made me feel hostile. That's not good for the mind, body or spirit of myself or anyone else participating in the discussion. Again I apologize and I'll go away now.
If homeopathy worked, some pharmaceutical company would have done the research and than gotten FDA approval for an ethical drug. Someone might successfully make the argument to me that for some reason research hasn't been done yet on a particular substance. However, I would think those cases would be very few and far between.
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Modern physics is still a new thing in its infancy and some day in the future it will catch up and understand what ancient healers knew and passed down from aeons ago.
