Can mass killings in the US ever be greatly reduced? (activist, holidays)

[ackmondual]

Originally Posted by kelly237

So driving was a constitutionally guaranteed right at one point ??
And you want to magically pretend the right to bear arms isn't in our constitution.
When you start your own country, write your constitution however you want.
Ours is already written.

I'm saying if a law doesn't make sense, even if it's written into the Constitution, then we should change it. Should we have just accepted slavery as an eternal thing since it was written into the Constitution? No, that got changed, and for good reason.

[rstevens62]

Originally Posted by LiaLia

That could work. And at a secure school adults would stand at the entrance to monitor the traffic. Especially if there's a metal detector right inside the entrance.

There is no effective way to monitor and search everyone when its lots of people coming and going though.

I remember watching a documentary on one of the toughest Mexican prisons, (they are much worse than american prisons), even the warden himself admitted, that on visiting day, they cannot search and check EVERYONE that comes to visit, He was just being honest about the situation, Im sure they would like to be able to check and search everyone, but its just not practical. The same thing would be true for some of the suggestions on school security.

[mister_roboto]

Originally Posted by Crashj007

every place I have worked with key cards has been ineffective when groups come in or out at shift change. One Guy opens it and everyone else in the que barges in. Maybe it needs to be like a subway.

hmmm

is everyone ignoring the fact that they said the kid was a former student and used his knowledge about the schools security to execute this attack- he knew the ways in and out of the school and who went where


and not for nothing but the shooterrs now are going inside of places - so once you make it difficult for them to get inside whats to keep them from simply shifting their attacks to just doign their shooting once everyone is outside waiting to get in or gathering once they leave ( because kids hangingout in front of schools is not a thing ) ....

[LiaLia]

Originally Posted by rstevens62

There is no effective way to monitor and search everyone when its lots of people coming and going though.

I remember watching a documentary on one of the toughest Mexican prisons, (they are much worse than american prisons), even the warden himself admitted, that on visiting day, they cannot search and check EVERYONE that comes to visit, He was just being honest about the situation, Im sure they would like to be able to check and search everyone, but its just not practical. The same thing would be true for some of the suggestions on school security.

There is an effective way. A public school filled with children is not a tough Mexican prison. It's an environment that can be controlled far more than it is now. I've worked at many public schools and have a hundred times watched adults stand at an entrance and observe and control the flow of students in and out. It's done every day, business as usual, nothing over the top about it. It works. No guarantees about the future or about any particular school but it works now in thousands of schools. The next step is to enhance current security because it's been shown that campuses are still not safe. So we keep the methods that work, we listen to the experts and we employ more methods. This is not an insurmountable challenge. This country has accomplished far, far, more complicated tasks. We can do this if we don't throw up our hands and cave.

[Old Guard]

I think that it will happen but it will have less to do with gun rights/control and more to do with social changes.

[kelly237]

Having ONE armed security checkpoint to enter would help. Obviously emergency exits for fires and such.

It seems to me that most of the mass shootings have been by someone that walked in
during the day unseen and unnoticed until they opened fire.

[movedintime]

Originally Posted by kayanne

I've wondered how effective anti-bullying campaigns have been. Are kids as a whole treating each other better? The number of school shootings is increasing.

Thanks for contributing your thoughts.

Seems these child shooters are from the generation where disciplinary action by the school/principal for unacceptable behavior is forbidden.

Give the paddle back to the principals and coaches from grade school years on. Parents too.

The experiment of 'Time Out' didn't work.

[phetaroi]

Originally Posted by movedintime

Seems these child shooters are from the generation where disciplinary action by the school/principal for unacceptable behavior is forbidden.

Give the paddle back to the principals and coaches from grade school years on. Parents too.

The experiment of 'Time Out' didn't work.

Sorry, but as a retired principal...south of the Mason Dixon Line...I never wanted the paddle. Never needed the paddle. And never met a colleague principal who wanted it, either.

[movedintime]

Originally Posted by phetaroi

Sorry, but as a retired principal...south of the Mason Dixon Line...I never wanted the paddle. Never needed the paddle. And never met a colleague principal who wanted it, either.

And look at your results

[Crashj007]

Originally Posted by ackmondual

I'm saying if a law doesn't make sense, even if it's written into the Constitution, then we should change it. Should we have just accepted slavery as an eternal thing since it was written into the Constitution? No, that got changed, and for good reason.

You are right. Yes we should. But we can't.
After the war it took serious political work and was a near thing, but finally the Republicans prevailed and the slaves were no longer property. The battle for the change was difficult. Slavery was not written into the Constitution. Previously withheld rights had to be given "to all men" without including women back in those days.
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The process to create an Amendment is outlined in Article 5 of the Constitution. Briefly:
Both Chambers of Congress agree on a resolution to be sent to the States. It is passed by 2/3 of each chamber. This has happened 33 times. There have been more than 10,000 proposed.

The First sentence is: "The Second Amendment of the Constitution is repealed" More follows to replace it.

The Resolution is sent to the legislatures of each of the 50 States. Each of the chambers of each of the states is subject to the Constitution of each of the individual States so there are 50 x 2 sets of rules for endorsing the resolution. There can be no changes made to the resolution, it is yes or no. It is implemented when 3/4 of the States have agreed. This has happened 27 times. Two cancel each other.

Then what?

Well, as challenging as that process was, there are 45 States and territories and some other bits & pieces, with Articles in their constitutions with similar provisions to provide the right to bear arms. Those have to be repealed and replaced or altered. There is no way to force the States to comply with the Federal Constitution as amended.

How would it be possible for roughly 3/4s of 7,383 state legislators voting independently in each of their 50 States to agree with Congress given the divisive nature of the issue today? Probably longer that the 7-10 years typically allowed for passage. Probably longer than before the heat death of the universe.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Hence my process:
Pass a law banning the possession of ANY SEMI-AUTOMATIC WEAPON capable of using more than some small number of rounds without reloading. The old list of 200 is futility. There are far more fearsome weapons available that you haven't heard of or seen in movies. Must get rid of all of them
Please do not explode yet. Hold you comments for the end.
BATFE enforces this against exactly one preselected candidate who is seized by US Marshals and then booked, indicted, and bailed on the charge. Everyone on both sides understands what is going on, so the Third War of the American Revolution does not break out.
This judicial action would be an overt violation of the 2nd Amendment but SCOTUS can't review it until there is a case.A Justice gives an injunction against further enforcement until it gets to SCOTUS.
Appeals and counter appeals follow until the case arrives at SCOTUS.
"all the world wonders . . ."
SCOTUS holds the Second Amendment Valid but of no Consequence (MOOT) since there is no "Well regulated Militia" at the National level. The National Guards are separate organizations controlled by the States and do not fit the requirements of the Amendment. So nobody gets to "own, operate , or possess said AR-15 Type rifle unless they are in the as yet None Existent Well Regulated Militia."The decision is confirmed and the case is returned to the lower court, and our felon heads for SuperMax.
BUT WAIT! The President signs an executive order creating A Well Regulated Militia with a Charter, rules, and all that. Congress cheers and endorses it. Our prototype felon is immediately installed as commander of AWRM and is pardoned by the President. All retired military are installed as members with a big parade. The guy that dreamed up this solution is awarded The Presidential Freedom Medal, pardoned of all his sins, and gets a parking place on The Mall. Or something like that.
The application for everyone else to join is on line. It will take awhile to vet 200 million citizens.
Sorry , it's past bedtime.
It would be a Federally Chartered Organization, well supervised and controlled at the State and Federal levels. It would not be a military organization, but the membership and command staff would be there for setting standards, training, providing safe facilities, and secure storage of weapons, and most important, examination and certification of candidates. Any citizen not a member can have a six shooter and a double shell shot gun and a bolt action or lever action rifle or anything that is non-repeater built before some arbitrary date. The rest of the "big black ugly rifles and pistols that look like weapons of war" can be stuffed in museums or melted down. Certificate exceptions allowed for collectors.
The whole point is the weapons are removed from the general public and the membership weeds out the nut cases.
(Yes, there are issues for registry and all the other conflicts. I am not writing your laws in one post.)

"My point, and I did have one, is if you can't live with the 2nd, and you can't repeal or replace, change the meaning."