Can mass killings in the US ever be greatly reduced? (illegal, drugs)
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Please post here only if you have something positive and respectful to contribute. There are already numerous other threads filled with name-calling and nonsense.
Please use logic to share your thoughts or to point out the flaws in someone else's suggestions. Share data and links whenever possible.
This thread is for people who want to maturely and rationally consider how we might make our schools and other public venues safer from mass killers.
Personally, I'm convinced that the propensity for aggression and violence is more affected by our history and societal makeup than any other factor. Most of our forefathers came here to escape the stagnation and class-consciousness that characterized most of Europe; the only notable exception were the people brought here as slaves, and the structure under which they lived in the years following the Civil War brought about its own variation of this pattern. When you live in an area (or a society) in which the means of personal protection are further removed, you're inclined to develop your own resources, and the natural consequence was occasional mistrust and resultant casualties.
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Our current national polarization revolves mostly around the amount of trust the two camps are willing to place in the power of a centralized state; "Progressives" seek to emulate the European model in which individual means of defense (or of lashing out) are restricted in the name of societal benefit, whereas those who live in more-rural neighborhoods, where sport hunting is more common and exposure to proper handling of a weapon while still in one's teens is likely, have a view somewhat removed from the "cowboy (or urban cowboy) culture" depicted by a mass media geared to an urban/suburban market.
But just as no member of the 15-or-so "tested" democracies -- where power has changed hands exclusively via free elections for a century or more -- has since taken up the sword against another member of the group, so should a post-industrial economy outgrow the need for personal protection, provided that a means to identify, counsel and (if necessary) restrain the alienated few on the fringes remains, and also provided that those far-removed from the ethos of Rural America refrain from writing their own values into "standards" used to overrule the strong beliefs of a substantial minority.
Last edited by 2nd trick op; 02-20-2018 at 06:43 PM..
“It may be laid down, as a primary position, and the basis of our system, that every citizen who enjoys the protection of a free government, owes not only a proportion of his property, but even of his personal services to the defence of it, and consequently that the Citizens of America (with a few legal and official exceptions) from 18 to 50 Years of Age should be borne on the Militia Rolls, provided with uniform Arms, and so far accustomed to the use of them, that the Total strength of the Country might be called forth at Short Notice on any very interesting Emergency.”
- - - George Washington; "Sentiments on a Peace Establishment" in a letter to Alexander Hamilton (2 May 1783); published in The Writings of George Washington (1938), edited by John C. Fitzpatrick, Vol. 26, p. 289.
[... Every citizen ... owes a portion of his property ... and services in defense ... in the militia ... from 18 to 50 years of age... ]
Imagine what would happen if every citizen was trained in the use of firearms, and was armed?
Few, if any lunatics could engage in slaughter without a swift response.
“It may be laid down, as a primary position, and the basis of our system, that every citizen who enjoys the protection of a free government, owes not only a proportion of his property, but even of his personal services to the defence of it, and consequently that the Citizens of America (with a few legal and official exceptions) from 18 to 50 Years of Age should be borne on the Militia Rolls, provided with uniform Arms, and so far accustomed to the use of them, that the Total strength of the Country might be called forth at Short Notice on any very interesting Emergency.”
- - - George Washington; "Sentiments on a Peace Establishment" in a letter to Alexander Hamilton (2 May 1783); published in The Writings of George Washington (1938), edited by John C. Fitzpatrick, Vol. 26, p. 289.
[... Every citizen ... owes a portion of his property ... and services in defense ... in the militia ... from 18 to 50 years of age... ]
Imagine what would happen if every citizen was trained in the use of firearms, and was armed?
Few, if any lunatics could engage in slaughter without a swift response.
Are you thinking along the lines of what Switzerland does? Could you elaborate?
Sadly people will stick to the extremes and nothing much will happen.
I would go after the low hanging fruit first. Improving background checks and eliminating bump stocks and high capacity magazines. I think this would result in a slight reduction in crime. It wouldn't have done anything in Florida but it may have saved a few lives in Las Vegas.
Now for the controversial part. A "Wall" on the Southern border. If it would cut illegal guns, drugs, and criminals by just 10% it would mean thousands of lives saved. Not the large mass shootings but the 3 ands 4 victim ones that happen everyday throughout the country.
Schools will have to make a greater effort to help that weird kid without any friends. I mean socialization not mental health treatment. Make a greater effort to include them and stricter punishment for the ones that bully.
I think these suggestions would cut the murder rate. They wouldn't change anyone's lives for the worse, but the fringe who think no one should have a gun or that any gun law is a conspiracy to take our guns will prevent any meaningful change.
Sadly people will stick to the extremes and nothing much will happen.
I would go after the low hanging fruit first. Improving background checks and eliminating bump stocks and high capacity magazines. I think this would result in a slight reduction in crime. It wouldn't have done anything in Florida but it may have saved a few lives in Las Vegas.
Now for the controversial part. A "Wall" on the Southern border. If it would cut illegal guns, drugs, and criminals by just 10% it would mean thousands of lives saved. Not the large mass shootings but the 3 ands 4 victim ones that happen everyday throughout the country.
Schools will have to make a greater effort to help that weird kid without any friends. I mean socialization not mental health treatment. Make a greater effort to include them and stricter punishment for the ones that bully.
I think these suggestions would cut the murder rate. They wouldn't change anyone's lives for the worse, but the fringe who think no one should have a gun or that any gun law is a conspiracy to take our guns will prevent any meaningful change.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Regarding the wall, what about the criticism that guns, drugs, and to a smaller extent humans, will be flown in by plane? I'll admit I don't know a lot of details about the proposed wall but am not (yet) convinced it would be all that helpful.
While being a supporter of the 2nd Amendment for several reasons, I have come to the conclusion that we must take aggressive steps to reduce school shootings.
Over 90% of the shooters are consuming pills from the same class of psychotropic drugs. With pharmaceuticals being our largest industry, I may imagine addressing that would amount to the proverbial "Third Rail".
I'm up for blocking the sale of semi-automatics to teen-agers. There are no easy solutions of course.
While being a supporter of the 2nd Amendment for several reasons, I have come to the conclusion that we must take aggressive steps to reduce school shootings.
Over 90% of the shooters are consuming pills from the same class of psychotropic drugs. With pharmaceuticals being our largest industry, I may imagine addressing that would amount to the proverbial "Third Rail".
I'm up for blocking the sale of semi-automatics to teen-agers. There are no easy solutions of course.
I did not know that. My first thought after reading your post was that only someone who is already mentally unstable would be taking psychotropic drugs, so is the impulse to kill connected to the underlying mental illness, or brought on by the medication? I'll definitely do some more reading on this topic.
This is the opening paragraph from that site:
If you develop digestive problems after a change in diet, do you look for the cause in foods you always ate or the new ones you started eating? While the answer is obvious, this common sense is painfully uncommon when analyzing the new phenomenon of continual mass shootings: Many blame the long-present “foods” — guns in this case — and ignore the new diet whose embrace coincided with the problem. And part of what’s new is the widespread use of psychiatric drugs.
Definitely an interesting factor to consider. Thanks.
One idea for guns is to limit clips to 5 rounds. It's a start.
For an other factor, I believe political correctness is actually making things better.
It's not acceptable to pick on people like it used to be.
The ones picked on and isolated have often been the ones who picked up a gun.
Sure. All you have to do is require tiers of rigorous training and permitting. Air rifle? .22 rifle? A basic gun safety course and a permit that does a simple background check. A bolt action deer rifle or a shotgun? A bit more required training and range time every year before renewing your permit. Semi-automatics and hand guns get yearly background checks and even more training and range time with instructor time.
When you create a gun safety culture, the nut jobs will usually be easy to spot and you look more closely before renewing their permit.
With that kind of system, junkies and gang bangers don’t get access. If you want the right to carry a gun, you have to earn it.
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