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I personally suspect that moderate views will return once there is a strong middle class in America again. It seems to me the extreme views may be a result of the extreme income distribution with the very rich and the very poor, leading to class tensions and resentment from both sides. Our education system is badly out of date, and new high school graduates have in many ways spent the last 12 years of their life memorizing things that can be looked up on Google, instead of learning how to be productive in an increasingly technology-driven economy. If we update the education system, I think we can have a strong middle class again, since people will have skills better matched to the (post?) modern economy. And in turn this could reduce political polarization, IMHO.
I think part of this is the regents and other standardized tests that each state mandate on kids. It isn't any anything new though. Many states had it prior to NCLB. It taught bullet points and not any real rhyme or reason to the issue at hand. For the Civil War, it is why many attribute it solely to slavery. The industrialization and trade aren't covered in school history at all.
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Or is it that those on the fringes just yell the loudest?
There really seems to be no room for moderates or compromise in today's society.
Compromise is viewed as a sign of weakness. If you don't get everything you want for some people you lost or failed.
I have also notice that more and more people hold a binary view of the world. There's no gray there's only black and white, good and bad and what seems to be constant thing on these threads, right and left.
In some ways this is the biggest reason why people can't understand others who don't share their opinions and beliefs. Someone thinks that they know all of the answers to society's ills and if we simply do this the problem will cease to exist.
If that was the case than their solutions would be implemented easily with no unforeseen consequences.
I have to wonder if society will ever return to moderacy or will people continue to egotistically look at those with different beliefs as the enemy?
I think you make very good points and its both a worry and a puzzle.
Personally I think it all revolves around population. 1 rat in a box is pretty happy. 2 rats in a box are maybe more happy. 3, 4, 5 fine....at some point there are too many rats in the box no matter how much food or water there is. They all hate it and get aggressive. I realize most people will poo poo this because they want to be compared to rats and feel like they have plenty of space and lots of rural space left. But I don't think its just that simple. We can be affected collectively by things we don't quite understand.
Add in its just harder and harder to educate, manage, affect all these rats who no longer have that social incentive to behave properly.
More and more rats getting added everyday. I expect it to just get worse, esp given the financial divide and when food and water start becoming scarcer.
But it does make you think doesn't it? Those on the extremes and fringes allow politics to define who they are as well as other people. I don't know if the people in the middle are really as involved or define themselves in terms of 'us vs them'
People in the middle are mostly on the apathetic side of the 'apathy vs engagement' continuum. Yes, you have your diplomatic sorts, your skillful compromisers, your ever-nuanced 'natural' moderates, but these people seem to me to be relatively rare. Most moderates are moderate by virtue of a lack of political engagement. Therein lies the problem--the correlation of engagement with polarization. I think more people are at least superficially 'engaged' these days thanks to the omnipresence of media, and greater polarization ensues.
I believe the two party system facilitates the extremes.
The current political polarization is a direct result of the increasing general ignorance of the population.
the great and the greedy and the power-hungry who are masters of the use of digital technology reach right into that
I think rich people are manipulating the media to fan the flames of discord
social media has in fact had an impact in normalization of extremes.
the extreme income distribution with the very rich and the very poor, leading to class tensions and resentment from both sides.
People in the middle are mostly on the apathetic side of the 'apathy vs engagement' continuum.
The media especially tend to portray things in the extreme stirring up the human mind
It's comforting to see something that reinforces your worldview.
Or is it that those on the fringes just yell the loudest?
it is far too easy to find your stance online and disregard the otherside.
Our political system is flawed. Our primary elections are heavily tilted towards extremes because they are held at different times and the extremes tend to vote.
I believe the two party system facilitates the extremes.
The current political polarization is a direct result of the increasing general ignorance of the population.
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This is a really intriguing discussion. I went back and extracted some important excerpts from people's posts re this reason why society is becoming so extreme. Some reasons were stated more than once but I posted just one example.
I'm not sure what I believe but I think there's at least a grain of truth in all of the above. Social media is facilitating it but it's caused by ignorance, the way our government is set up with only two parties and elections at odd times, the loss of a middle class--leaving mostly the rich and the poor to lash out at each other, and the manipulation of the rich and the poor by the powerful and greedy.
Now I'm really starting to lean towards the growing divide between the rich and the poor, facilitated by the media, especially social media where you can pick and choose what to see or read.
There are signs that it's a class war. The poor coal miners vs the "elite" sounds familiar. That's like the poor people vs the monarchy in the French Revolution. Or the pathetic mill workers vs the filthy rich mill owners during the Industrial Revolution. Poor people vs the Czar during the Russian Revolution.
If there are people on here who are good at history, you can no doubt find more examples.
It's caused by the rich and the greedy. Human nature. Human greed. (facilitated by the media, the political system, etc.)
Does that mean the only answer is to have a revolution? The people rise up and overthrow the rich and powerful? I can't imagine that in this day and age. Anyway, how are we supposed to know who to blame? It's not just some royalty. Today it's a lot more complicated.
But if it really is the inequality between rich and poor (and of races and more...) that is fueling this divide and dissension, then it's just going to get worse until something gives. They can throw us a bone or let us eat cake but that's not enough to stop the hatred and division.
I hope we don't need to follow in the footsteps of history and have a revolution.
Moderator note: as of this posting only 12 of over 30 posts remain in this thread. If you choose to post here:
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Read all of the posts in the thread
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Or is it that those on the fringes just yell the loudest?
There really seems to be no room for moderates or compromise in today's society.
Compromise is viewed as a sign of weakness. If you don't get everything you want for some people you lost or failed.
I have also notice that more and more people hold a binary view of the world. There's no gray there's only black and white, good and bad and what seems to be constant thing on these threads, right and left.
In some ways this is the biggest reason why people can't understand others who don't share their opinions and beliefs. Someone thinks that they know all of the answers to society's ills and if we simply do this the problem will cease to exist.
If that was the case than their solutions would be implemented easily with no unforeseen consequences.
I have to wonder if society will ever return to moderacy or will people continue to egotistically look at those with different beliefs as the enemy?
I think you make very good points and its both a worry and a puzzle.
Personally I think it all revolves around population. 1 rat in a box is pretty happy. 2 rats in a box are maybe more happy. 3, 4, 5 fine....at some point there are too many rats in the box no matter how much food or water there is. They all hate it and get aggressive. I realize most people will poo poo this because they get insultated by what it says about lifestyle (kids) and don't want to be compared to rats and feel like they have plenty of space and lots of rural space left. But I don't think its just that simple. We can be affected collectively by things we don't quite understand.
Add in its just harder and harder to educate, manage, affect all these rats who no longer have that social incentive to behave properly.
More and more rats getting added everyday. I expect it to just get worse, esp given the financial divide and when food and water start becoming scarcer.
In my post #39 where I quoted from a lot of other posts, I was wondering if the only solution is revolution.
If not revolution (I hope not) then the other thing I can think of is to make things more fair for everyone.
IF the cause is a great divide between rich and poor (fueled by the media) then do what they did in England after the Industrial Revolution. It was the very rich and the very poor so they added in a little bit of socialism (bad word to some) to even things out. They still have the very rich and the very poor but it's not so extreme. Not too many go without food, no one goes without health care, there aren't too many homeless that I know of.
I do think the reason is the loss of our middle class and too many rich, greedy, and powerful vs too many struggling and poor. Throughout history, that has caused strife.
I agree with this. I don't think a lot of people take the time to read and think about things anymore. They'll believe something they see on social media or tv. Life is too fast paced now to stop and think things over. People are on their phones. They are not studying what's going on in the world and in the country.
Since the media will always focus on the extreme just to get ratings, all these people are seeing are extremes. At least in the past the media wasn't so preoccupied with the extreme sensationalism. TV used to be more impartial.
But also, other countries seem do be doing okay with their politics. Maybe. Take Canada, they have social media, smart phones. Yet they still seem to pay attention to their leadership.
Could part of the problem be that we only have the two parties? In the UK, when one party falls out of favor, it's gone and the favored party takes over. No waiting four years to have an election. They have several political parties too. They have the two extreme parties but also several in the middle to choose from.
There is probably more than one reason why the extremism is the rule now.
For most of my life I preferred our political system over England's parliamentary system. But, I agree. Sometimes four years is a long time to wait, and I feel those four years allows the party in power to coast, rather than bridge divisions.
The extremism is rising as more people move to areas that have attractive political climates for them. Jobs and skills are transferable. People move and they move into areas where similar views are shared. As such, conservative areas get more conservative, liberal areas get more liberal.
As the movement gets easier and the information is more readily known, it becomes easier to tell people to move rather than moderating. Beyond politics this can encompass many lifestyles. A sailing society, or an LGBT community, an equestrian community, a green community, a religious community, an ethnic society... The echo chamber of a person's richeousness isn't just from television and radio, but from neighbors.
The extremism is rising as more people move to areas that have attractive political climates for them. Jobs and skills are transferable. People move and they move into areas where similar views are shared. As such, conservative areas get more conservative, liberal areas get more liberal.
As the movement gets easier and the information is more readily known, it becomes easier to tell people to move rather than moderating. Beyond politics this can encompass many lifestyles. A sailing society, or an LGBT community, an equestrian community, a green community, a religious community, an ethnic society... The echo chamber of a person's richeousness isn't just from television and radio, but from neighbors.
That and the internet. Let's just look at City-Data for instance, it is over-run by conservative if not generally Pro-Trump if not downright alt.right posters. They corrugate in one-place and as soon as you attack the group-think, you are wrong, even if it is entirely true.
Just on this very thread, you already have the groups separating themselves into Conservatives and Liberals. The last couple of posts are blaming Conservatives for all of the extremism, that somehow President Trump is the cause of all of this political strife.
The real problem is most Americans do not have the capacity to handle free thought. It is impossible to get people to leave their political ideology behind and actually try to solve a problem. Both sides care more about making the other side look bad, than solving a problem.
The recent rise in extremism is being caused by social media. The extremists used to be separated by time and space. They were all holed away in various corners of society. Now they can all get together on social media and spread their lunacy far and wide, and the moderate members of society have just backed out of the conversation altogether. I can't talk about politics at all, because I get firebombed by the left and right. Sure they both want my vote come election time, but in the meantime, just shut up and let the passionate people think.
President Trump is no better, or no worse, than any other U. S. president. Every single president in the history of this nation has been weak in some areas, and strong in others. There have been other presidents impose tariffs, other presidents lower tax rates, other presidents sign spending bills that put the U.S. in a deficit. But if you listen the left, Trump is the devil himself and the country wont exist in 2 years. If you listen to the extreme right, Trump has single handedly saved the country. Both are wrong, but they would rather fight you than listen to reason.
Social media has emboldened the fringes of society, and now they have center stage.
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