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At what point is it best to not save the lives of accident victims?
Take for instance a young child, that had half their body crushed, sustained a TBI and won’t ever talk again because of trachea injuries.
The child will be a dependent for the rest of her life. She will never live a normal life. I just can’t imagine wanting to subject a child to a life of wheelchairs, never speaking, getting married, having children, eating without feeding tubes....Why do we do this to ourselves?
No "general" rule. Each case is specific. You listed 3 injuries. What if only 2 were present?
If you had an age threshold where would you set it? Who makes the final decision and why?
In the UK under the National Health Service, medical professionals sometimes decide they can't afford the resources to keep the person alive, and pull the plug irrespective of alternate wishes. Free health care has its limits....
In the UK under the National Health Service, medical professionals sometimes decide they can't afford the resources to keep the person alive, and pull the plug irrespective of alternate wishes. Free health care has its limits....
Versus, what? Prolonging this misery indefinitely to make money of every unfortunate patient in "vegetative" state?
I don't think in the "free healthcare" countries those "limits" are the reasons.
I wish people would take the time to learn about "free" healthcare in Europe...
Free health care" system, in reality, it's not really free. While each country has its own variation, the common denominator is that everyone pays for health care as a society — intending to minimize the overall expense and spread around the cost and risk so that an unlucky few are not bankrupted by medical costs.
Healthcare in Europe (regardless of system) is largely funded by tax dollars collected from employers and the public. In many cases, this is through a simple payroll tax, but also from the insurance companies themselves, and additional taxes on tobacco and alcohol and other sources. https://www.medpagetoday.com/blogs/kevinmd/82877
It is often not possible to immediately assess who will and who will not sustain the long term disabilities you describe. A trauma team's immediate goal is to save the patients life.
It is often not possible to immediately assess who will and who will not sustain the long term disabilities you describe. A trauma team's immediate goal is to save the patients life.
Agree. Also, medical advances are being made constantly. Just because someone is unable to talk, walk or eat by themselves today doesn't guarantee they'll always be that way. Add to that each person's definition of a life worth living is different. I can see if someone's been severely disabled for 5 years without improvement one might think of ending it but when when an injury first occurs it makes perfect sense to try to save the person.
A trauma team has a job, perhaps we can address it from another angle: How many of us have a living will? And should suicide be legal? These are all tied together. And what of the fine print in hospital admission forms? I have had two outpatient surgeries where the forms specially say they will not honor DNR's. Its a problem we don't want to deal with; a trauma team can't make an ethical, legal and medical certainly can't.
No "general" rule. Each case is specific. You listed 3 injuries. What if only 2 were present?
If you had an age threshold where would you set it? Who makes the final decision and why?
In the UK under the National Health Service, medical professionals sometimes decide they can't afford the resources to keep the person alive, and pull the plug irrespective of alternate wishes. Free health care has its limits....
I listed the 3 things I remembered. She has a long list of injuries. From the videos and information posted on social media, doctors do not think she will improve much more than she has. She has been sentenced to a life of living a life of medical care. Her parents are young and now going to have to live in a hospital indefinitely with this child, or learn how to take care of her themselves at home. She has been in hospital since October.
I just think, they should have let nature take the course on this one. The mother has posted she has had to mourn the loss of the child she had... yes the accident was tragic but we shouldn’t always move mountains to save the lives of people that won’t actually be living those lives. Being a vegetable or perpetual newborn... is not living.
Versus, what? Prolonging this misery indefinitely to make money of every unfortunate patient in "vegetative" state?
I don't think in the "free healthcare" countries those "limits" are the reasons.
I wish people would take the time to learn about "free" healthcare in Europe...
Free health care" system, in reality, it's not really free. While each country has its own variation, the common denominator is that everyone pays for health care as a society — intending to minimize the overall expense and spread around the cost and risk so that an unlucky few are not bankrupted by medical costs.
Healthcare in Europe (regardless of system) is largely funded by tax dollars collected from employers and the public. In many cases, this is through a simple payroll tax, but also from the insurance companies themselves, and additional taxes on tobacco and alcohol and other sources. https://www.medpagetoday.com/blogs/kevinmd/82877
Versus the alternate wishes I mentioned.....
I spent the first 30 years of my life under the Irish medical system, which is kinda modeled on the UK, but not as extensive. I've been treated for some minor emergencies under the UK NHS. I grew up watching TV and newspaper reports on the good and bad aspects of the system. I'd say I have as good an understanding of the UK system as any American.
My point in highlighting the NHS was to show there are no easy answers to the issue as framed by the OP.
Webster, above, put his finger on the issues.
I listed the 3 things I remembered. She has a long list of injuries. From the videos and information posted on social media, doctors do not think she will improve much more than she has. She has been sentenced to a life of living a life of medical care. Her parents are young and now going to have to live in a hospital indefinitely with this child, or learn how to take care of her themselves at home. She has been in hospital since October.
I just think, they should have let nature take the course on this one. The mother has posted she has had to mourn the loss of the child she had... yes the accident was tragic but we shouldn’t always move mountains to save the lives of people that won’t actually be living those lives. Being a vegetable or perpetual newborn... is not living.
I don't fundamentally disagree with you, nor do I think most people would. I was suggesting you're not likely to get a satisfactory answer to such a complex issue here.
At what point is it best to not save the lives of accident victims?
Take for instance a young child, that had half their body crushed, sustained a TBI and won’t ever talk again because of trachea injuries.
The child will be a dependent for the rest of her life. She will never live a normal life. I just can’t imagine wanting to subject a child to a life of wheelchairs, never speaking, getting married, having children, eating without feeding tubes....Why do we do this to ourselves?
Tell you what. When you're an EMT or emergency room physician, you stroll up to the distraught parents and say, "Hey, we think the quality of life is going to be pretty low, so we made it easy on you and let your kid die."
One of my best, lifelong friends had twins who both had a freak viral infection in their heart tissues, thereby requiring heart transplants. By some freakish miracle, both of them got donor hearts at the same time. Fifteen years later, one is living a perfectly normal life while the other had complications during the surgery which meant severely limited brain function. My friend has supported her daughter every since then. It hasn't been easy for her, but there's absolutely no situation on earth where she would ever trade her child's life.
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