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Originally Posted by Pandamonium
What? You do not like discussing contraceptives in school? Are you one of the teach abstinance only fans?Actually, many teens end up having the child rather than having an abortion. There are a few that do want a child for the reason that you gave but for the most part they don't either.
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Where in any of my posts can you infer that I do not support discussing sex education and providing contraception in schools? This subject was not mentioned in my original post and you are attempting to associate me with an ideology which I do not subscribe to. Frankly I have no problem with providing contraception to students in school, as long as their parents give permission for their child to receive contraception. Because if a parent has no knowledge that their child is sexually active that is a problem, and parents need to be well informed of everything that occurs in their child's life until adulthood.
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Here is the deal.......good luck with telling people what they should and should not do. Good luck with taking on capitalism.
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Where in any of my posts are you finding that I am telling people what they should and should not do. Everything I have posted are questions - it's a discussion, not a rant. I am not telling anyone what they should or should not do.
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Selling products is based on insecurity. Lipstick, mascara, botox it is all designed to make you feel insecure and further, that in turn aids how one views another. Looking glass self which states that you view yourself through others eyes.
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Botox (or plastic surgery) is supposed to make you feel more secure with yourself otherwise why have it. Why do you think that selling products is based on insecurity? If it is not your choice to wear makeup, or have botox, who are you to judge a woman as being insecure if she wears lipstick or has botox injections? That's like saying someone who colors their hair, or goes to a beautician for regular hair and nail appointments is insecure. It's called maintenance and many women like to wear makeup. Yes, there are some who wouldn't be caught dead in public with a clean face, but that's their preference.
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That is exactly how masculinity is measured along with violence, whether or not you choose to see it that way, is another thing. Machismo. I have already explained the physiological changes that occur in their bodies as a huge contributing factor. That would be hormones.
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Humans have a higher mental capacity for reason, and that is what separates us from our cousins the chimpanzee. If you want to use the excuse that people can't suppress sexual urges because of hormones then I guess all sexual predators shouldn't be prosecuted for their sexual abuses because they can argue their hormones made them do it. If someone makes a choice to give in to physical urges over using reason to resist the physical urge of having sex then that is an entirely different problem. People don't have to drop their pants and have sex compulsively humans can suppress any urge they want. If a teen knows it's not appropriate to have sex until they are adults, and they are given reasons why they should wait, then most teens should be able to refrain from having sex - which most do.
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Because it removes power from their hands in the manner that they do not control their destiny. It perpetuates powerlessness and if one is to leave the inner city crime and violence one must be able to not leave their will in the hands of a diety/nature/fate/genetics. You have to be able to want to help yourself. Its called subjugation to nature.
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Religion isn't for everyone. For some people it's everything. For some people it's dogma. I'm not going to comment on this subject because the role that religion/God plays in someone's life is personal. And whether it "perpetuates powerlessness, or someone puts their will in the hands of a deity/nature/fate/genetics" as quoted from you is totally their business, and who someone "subjugates" themself to is not my concern.
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Yes, I am. That does happen. But that sexual competiveness is already on the door step because of the options available and because there is a lot of profit to be made from it. Sex sells. Youth sells.
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Please clarify. "
that sexual competiveness is already on the door step because of the options available". What options are available? Advertizing and marketing options? Just because someone can sell a product in a "certain" way to make it more appealing and sexy doesn't mean they should. If there was a law that stated women could walk down the street stark naked in public, doesn't mean she should. This is what I mean by people taking responsibility for themselves and the world around them. If I see a large tree branch falling while you're walking under it and you don't see it falling, should I tell you to "look out!" you're about to be pummeled by a branch?
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I equally do not believe that it stems from this: she may see the child as a liability and constant reminder of the sexual encounter she had with a man who had no intention of marrying her or having any participation in raising the child. I reject that as a reason. In fact when you see me disagreeing with you it is because of a snippet of your reasoning.
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You don't think it is at all plausible that a woman who has no desire to nurture a child can reject it for that reason. Do you believe that all women are nurturing even when they detest the child they give birth to and that child abuse
can not arise from that?
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Second, it also depends on how large your family is. You may view family in a certain way. Not so much within different cultures. Tia may be active in your life but is actually a cousin not your tia. Following me? I'll get back to this in a minute.
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Please clarify. "
You may view family in a certain way. Not so much within different cultures. Tia may be active in your life but is actually a cousin not your tia."
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You have to make it to school. That is the problem. The problem is not at school. The problem is getting there and back. For those that do have problems at school, they already know who you are and who you are affiliated with and khakis and navy blue Dickies does nothing to dissuade it. It hasn't seemed to solve that bullying problem at school either.
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Violent bullying in school comes from a child witnessing or being emotionally or physically neglected or abused at home. The kid feels powerless at home and goes to school and exhibits behavior they learned at home in order to make another child feel small like they do.
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Um, you didn't include a study. Moving on.
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Posted separately in this thread after it was omitted.
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I see that you tried really hard to be impartial and in doing so have gone the other direction. "Color blind" is great until it denies values within cultures. Or it neglects some very real problems such as language as a barrier. Denying such is devaluing. So, I am going to try this again and see if it does not come accross easier to understand. You did want to break the cycle of inner city violence and crime. Yes?
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My attempt isn't to be "color blind". I do not believe that color has anything to do with an individual committing, or being predisposed to commit crime and perpetrate violence. Why would language be a problem when addressing crime and criminal activity. Why do you perceive it as "devaluing" an individual when you eliminate the variable of color/race/ethnicity/language to scapegoat someone's reason for committing a criminal offense. Since when is criminal behavior and violence related to a persons culture? I think culture and "race" has been scapegoated enough and people need to stop playing the victim, and step up to the plate and accept responsibility for their own actions.
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If we say that education should be a priority and that it is the most important goal and view that all relationships are based on individual goals first and the needs of the group second (collateral relationships) we cannot understand and are unwilling to understand those who place family first at different times and education second. Are you following me? This is where I am at. World views. Cultures. Drop out rates.
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Part of a person managing their life is knowing how to balance work, family, education and goals among all the other curveballs that come one's way - that's one of life's basic truths and that aspect is not going to change. How does world view and culture relate to drop out rates?
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It is not relevent what you believe that they should do. You can "should do" all day long and in the end, you still don't have anything. We will cross hairs every time because of that. Sexual competition occurs between females and it is for male attention. When the focus is on competition than there is no room for positive relationships between females. This is important because girls are being sent mixed messages. It is confusing and causes depression and whatever self worth they had is diminished. This begins to occur as early as 10 or 11. This is important because the majority of girls that are engaged in "violent crime" a good old Battery---its over a boy. Drive by's can also have a girl that goes in and starts talking about someone from another gang. They in turn are getting high and well, there you go.
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Again, you are attempting to convolute my statements. Nowhere in any of my posts have I said what people "should do". It's a discussion, I am not dictating what people "should do" to "make their lives better". What I have done is present questions. I am attempting to have a discussion here about various issues, how they developed over time, and toss around ideas on how to solve problems, and find out if they can be solved. If you are satisfied to sit there behind your monitor and imply that I am attempting to tell people how to live their lives you have the wrong perspective here.
Please clarify your position that "
Sexual competition occurs between females and it is for male attention.". So what people are going to compete for mates. So competition for mates is a reason why there's a vicious cycle of violence in the inner city? Are you really saying that sex is a contributing factor to violence in the inner city? Is there so much
value placed on sex that it causes people to murder each other?
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Now, whether you choose to acknowledge it or not, that is not what all families consist of. Again, not what you think they should be but what is. That means that extended family is vital AND they offer a support system that most little mom/pop/baby families desperatley need. Its culture. Or you can call them resources. You will find that some cultures will handle problems within the family and outsiders are not welcome. Therefore, no one is going to open up to someone outside of the group to talk to you about what is going on. But, go ahead and go marching right in there and tell them what they should do and see how far you get.
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It is a scientific and well documented fact, that children do better in homes where they have a mother and a father. I am not attempting to indoctrinate anyone with my personal views here. I haven't even stated what many of my personal views are in this thread. I am simply talking about issues.
http://www.clasp.org/publications/marriage_brief3_annotated.pdf
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This is flat out denying the values of another culture because you chose not to acknowledge them. It is devaluing. Poverty all over the world is not reason enough to not acknowledge what is happening in the US especially considering that there are different economic systems and differing problems. Language as a barrier. Huge depending on where your at. This is about what works.
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Since when is it a cultural value to commit crime, have babies out of wedlock, and be poor and uneducated? What culture values that? What culture am I not acknowledging here with any of my commentary, and why does culture need to be a variable with regard to the vicious cycle of violent inner city crime? Poor is poor, uneducated is uneducated, and an individual of any culture/ethnicity can relate to that.
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Male as savior. Single parenting has been going on for hundreds of years. You want the lack of a father to be the cause of the ills and to be the answer. The reality is that he may or may not be present. The reality is that even if he is present that it could do more harm than good. The reality is that even if you are married he could just take off and there you are. The reality is that there is a 50% chance of a divorce. The reality is that there is a good chance of hooking up with someone for economic reasons. Therefore, if you have a child you have to look at raising that child alone. You have to take that into consideration. What is NOT what should be.
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I don't see it as male as savior, I see it as male as equal participant. A woman doesn't need saving, she needs a partner where raising children are concerned. All those realities are true, there could be a divorce, he could be dead, in jail, or never present from the start, it doesn't change the fact that children do better when there are two parents raising it. That is my whole point which you seem to find inconsequential.
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Secondly, by all means men should step up to the plate. In your line of questioning you did not address what the hold up is. There are kids that have the best intentions of taking care of the child but, the reality is that it may be a good 10 years, if they live that long or don't go to prison, before they may contribute....if at all.
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What do you think the hold up is? If we're talking about children not caring for babies they make, they cannot care for themselves why would anyone believe they could care for a baby when they are ill prepared to do so. If we're talking about adults there are an infinite number of reasons why people do not accept responsibility for their actions. Why would they when some people have a victim mentality that it's someone else's fault why they do something.
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So, if your going to go running in there you might want to start focusing on economic independence/education and not wedlock. Especially, if your combating media images. The answer isn't in wedlock, because the problem isn't wedlock. You need to go in and find out why you have a high drop out rate. You don't want the only roles available as mother/wife.
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Economic independence. Means what exactly? We already discussed the fact that unfortunately tax revenue has a lot to do with the quality of education in a particular school district. What could be done to change this?
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There is a school in California that was opened by Latino business men because of an extremely high drop out rate. They have a limited number of students but they have shown high rates of success. You did want to break the cycle. Yes? Therefore, you might want to look at why it is so successful.
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Is this a private school? Or a charter school receiving public funds?
You aren't speaking of the "Academia Semillas del Pueblo" school in Los Angeles I hope.
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Affordable child care. Wishful thinking again, are we?
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How is affordable child care is necessary to stop the vicious cycle of violent inner city crime. Please elaborate.
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How about other ways of expression outside of violence? Sex is not all they think about nor is that all that they do. They actually have an interest in photography or draw/write exceptionally well.
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If at risk children have an interest in drawing art and writing it doesn't take an afterschool program with supervision to do that. All they need to do is stay off the streets and out of trouble if the ones at risk only would.
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