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The perfect example was the Soviet Union. You would ignore the millions in the gulags, the millions that were murdered, the millions that died of starvation, the Berlin wall, all the puppet government that were installed (10 sovereign states), the Khrushchev and Brezhnev doctrine and the communist congresses articulating how they wouldn't stop till they had a one world socialist or communist state? So at what point are you gonna wake up? It was the same with Hitler or do you think he would have stopped when he got done with Canada and Mexico after taking over the rest of the world?
The perfect example was the Soviet Union. You would ignore the millions in the gulags, the millions that were murdered, the millions that died of starvation, the Berlin wall, all the puppet government that were installed (10 sovereign states), the Khrushchev and Brezhnev doctrine and the communist congresses articulating how they wouldn't stop till they had a one world socialist or communist state? So at what point are you gonna wake up? It was the same with Hitler or do you think he would have stopped when he got done with Canada and Mexico after taking over the rest of the world?
Let me make sure I understand you. The reason there were Gulags was because the Russian people wanted them, instead of Peace. The German people, dreading peace, all got together and merrily put up the Berlin wall like a bunch of happy little elves. Is that what you are saying?
You have not proved that mankind doesn't want peace. You have proved that Khrushchev and Hitler did not want peace, and for that to fit your logic, you have to show that everybody else is just like Khrushchev and Hitler. At what point are you gonna wake up?
And, by the way, next time you talk about puppet governments who hate peace, don't forget to mention Marcos and Pinochet and the Shah.
Let me make sure I understand you. The reason there were Gulags was because the Russian people wanted them, instead of Peace. The German people, dreading peace, all got together and merrily put up the Berlin wall like a bunch of happy little elves. Is that what you are saying?
What do you know about the Russians? Even to this day, a large minority of Russians think Stalin had the right idea.
What do you know about the Russians? Even to this day, a large minority of Russians think Stalin had the right idea.
The glaringly simple reality is that Stalin had a lot of ideas. One idea was to exterminate millions of Russians. Another idea was a centrally planned economy. Are you telling me that the Russians who still advocate a centrally planned economy must by necessity also be in favor of millions of Russians being exterminated?
Good Lord. I'm arguing with third-graders. Even children playing with blocks understand that a block has more than one side.
Let me make sure I understand you. The reason there were Gulags was because the Russian people wanted them, instead of Peace. The German people, dreading peace, all got together and merrily put up the Berlin wall like a bunch of happy little elves. Is that what you are saying?
Spin city...
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88
You have not proved that mankind doesn't want peace. You have proved that Khrushchev and Hitler did not want peace, and for that to fit your logic, you have to show that everybody else is just like Khrushchev and Hitler. At what point are you gonna wake up?
There is no argument over the choice between peace and war but there is only one guaranteed way you can have peace and you can have it in the next second, surrender.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88
And, by the way, next time you talk about puppet governments who hate peace, don't forget to mention Marcos and Pinochet and the Shah.
So you really do place yourself above it all. Like you could just sit back on your island and ignore the rest of the world. This is exactly why parents should make sure their kids know that the world doesn't revolve around them.
There is no argument over the choice between peace and war but there is only one guaranteed way you can have peace and you can have it in the next second, surrender. .
Sorry, you are off topic. This is not about how peace can be attained. It is about whether mankind wants peace. Yes, it does. A few selfish brutes want everything for themselves, and peace is hard to attain against their thirst for power, and they can always find sycophants to buttress their tyranny, but in general, most people still want peace.
For another poster to have asserted that Khrushchev did not want peace does not address at all the question of whether mankind wants peace.
I read Wil Durant's History series some years ago and there's one statement in that book which has forever haunted me to this day, something I've long meditated on: Mankind has an equal desire to build and destroy.
Now, this could all be subsconscious. And who will ever know what lurks in the subsonscious mind of mankind unless we, individually, take that dark steep ladder down into our subconscious minds and find out what lurks there.
Perhaps, that wise old saying might provide a short-cut: What we hate most in others, we see so much of in ourselves.
Another important saying: The unconscious liar is the biggest liar of all.
Most people want peace.
Most people will suffer severe hardships to have partial peace.
Most of the Russians from 1917 to 1990 wanted peace and were willing to suffer to have partial peace.
Most Germans under Hitler wanted peace.
Most of the 6 million Jews Hitler murdered wanted peace.
The desire to have peace is an almost universal human desire.
Murderous dictators like Stalin, Lenin, Hitler, Mao etc. understand the desire of MOST humans to live in peace. They use this desire to subjugate masses of people because they are willing to accept a certain levels of a loss of freedom for a small portion of peace.
The most dangerous people in a Society are Pacifists!
Because of their desire to avoid violence predatory leaders will subjugate them. A lesson that should have been learned over and over in the past few centuries.
Personally, I don't believe in peace. That's not to say I support war and destruction, so much as when I make my way through the world, I don't really believe we as a species really want "peace" deep down. There is so much deeply buried passive-agression in so many people that I truly believe man wants war, we want to have an "enemy" and we want to be "victors". Weither it's a foriegn country, or the store clerk who messed up our change, we love and are addicted to drama.
Do you believe man's nature is one of peace? Or do you believe man will always have a need and craving for violence?
You may find clarity in realizing that war is either a defense against predation or predation. To determine which is which, you need to understand law.
There are two systems of law in operation, at this time.
TWO LAW SYSTEMS Law of Love:
1. Harmless action in support of one's right to life (Good)
2. Self sacrifice for the benefit of another. (Greatest Love)
Law of the Jungle:
3. Harmful action in support of one's right to life (Evil)
4. Harmful action for no reason (Worst)
Harmless productive people are "good" and harmful predatory people are "bad" only under the Law of Love.
Under the law of the jungle, predators are "good" and prey are "good to eat." Prey who fight back are "bad".
So it's not just a matter of law breaking, but which law is in force and effect. And when predators rule, woe to their prey.
It's safe to say that if all were obedient to the law of love, there would be no violence nor war.
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