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I remember saying it daily, hand over heart, while looking at the flag in elementary school. For some reason we didn't do it in middile or high school, at least I didn't and don't remember it happening. My kids didn't say it daily. I think it was recited once or twice a week over the loud speaker by someone in student government. Saying it outloud wasn't required but not being disruptive was.
That can work both ways. If we are convinced that what we have is liberty and justice, what incentive is there to strive for factual liberty and justice? It's NewSpeak. If War is called Peace, what is the incentive to seek a Peace that you already think you have?
Where we have achieved what is true and good, the words merely underline our efforts to retain those things. Where we have not, the words should inspire us to do more to live up to them.
As I'm sure you'd agree, our definition of "true and good", and "liberty and justice" are up to us as individuals to define. The point on which you and I might disagree is my observation that the phrase "liberty and justice for all" contains within it the rights of citizens to speak freely and dissent. As for me, I'll pledge allegiance to that any day...
Where we have achieved what is true and good, the words merely underline our efforts to retain those things. Where we have not, the words should inspire us to do more to live up to them.
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So, how many school children has that been explained to, so they will understand what they are "pledging", and whether it is an achievement or a goal? Or are they instead being taught that making a pledge is such an inconsequential act, that it doesn't matter?
If one makes a pledge once in a lifetime, isn't that binding? Why do they need to repeat it ever day? Make them utter the pledge on the first day of kindergarten (like being baptized for life) and then the daily pageantry is no longer necessary. Put a signed card on file in the school office that the allegiance has been pledged, and hold them to it. Like, the President doesn't need to take the oath of office every morning, to restore the legitimacy of his presidency for that day. It's on file.
Because for many people, the practice provides a deep and continuing connection with others who are also reciting the Pledge. I feel the same way when I receive the Eucharist. It joins me to other Christians throughout history in a way I find hard to explain but moves me deeply.
I recognize that there are many people for whom the Pledge contains empty words. As such, I feel the need to point out that if the words are meaningless to an individual, there is little chance that they will result in "brain-washing."
As far as whether or not there is a continuing discussion of unity, liberty, and justice, I think it depends on the family and the school district. We definitely have conversations about these principles in our family. Perhaps we are unusual. As far as our schools, every public school student in my state is required to complete a unit on citizenship. The Pledge, along with other topics, is covered in depth at that time.
Last edited by formercalifornian; 04-24-2010 at 10:36 AM..
So, how many school children has that been explained to, so they will understand what they are "pledging", and whether it is an achievement or a goal? Or are they instead being taught that making a pledge is such an inconsequential act, that it doesn't matter?
Please refer to my original post on this topic. I agree with you that without an explanation of what it is they are affirming, the pledge is of little value. I would argue that such an oversight is the fault of educators, not the children or the pledge itself.
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If one makes a pledge once in a lifetime, isn't that binding? Why do they need to repeat it ever day? Make them utter the pledge on the first day of kindergarten (like being baptized for life) and then the daily pageantry is no longer necessary. Put a signed card on file in the school office that the allegiance has been pledged, and hold them to it. Like, the President doesn't need to take the oath of office every morning, to restore the legitimacy of his presidency for that day. It's on file.
There is precious little in the way of positivity in contemporary public school curricula. To a great degree, what is taught in the schools involves brooding on violence, prejudice, ignorance, and social and emotional problems. It is not too much to ask, I think, that a few moments each day be set aside for a reaffirmation of civic ideals and a reconsideration of what President Lincoln called "the better angels of our nature".
Your approach --which I respect -- is socio-legalistic. Grant me the respect of considering the importance of an inspirational perspective. We're lost without each other, you know.
Sadly, America is, at virtually all times, involved in some kind of a war-like posture, either real or threatened, which is already glorified in the equally obligatory national anthem. All too often, the core concept of patriotism is cloaked in warlike attire. Your points are well taken, Yaledaf, but perhaps the social gesture of the Pledge could be replaced by some genuine assertion of civilized human enlightenment. Like the Cub Scout Oath, or Desiderata, or something. Come to think of it, the Pledge of Allegiance is more divisive than cohesive, reinforcing a mindset of "Us and Them". Although, giving credit where due, at least the Pledge of Allegiance doesn't contain any words like "kill the bastards".
"One nation...indivisible with liberty and justice for all" reinforces an us vs. them mentality? I don't see it. To me, it is clearly a statement of unity and perhaps even a bit of an invitation.
"One nation...indivisible with liberty and justice for all" reinforces an us vs. them mentality? I don't see it. To me, it is clearly a statement of unity and perhaps even a bit of an invitation.
It is a statement of unity only within the little corner of the world where those very children are being taught that their own flag flies uniquely over lands where liberty and justice prevail. That people under other flags neither possess nor deserve the God-given liberty and justice that we presume as a birthright. That is not unity, it is "Us/them".
Those poor foreigners, is says, who must toil their whole lives without liberty and justice, because God has not granted it to them, as He has to us. They are not like us. They are different from us.
I disagree. As I stated in a previous post, a declaration of principles is not an accusation that all others are unprincipled, and I find myself wondering what makes you believe so.
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