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Old 08-17-2010, 12:08 PM
 
29,988 posts, read 37,133,594 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Werone View Post
We have other means of communication if satellites go down. The communication industry is pretty robust.
My satellite TV goes down during every ice and thunderstorm. I don't want the same happening to my phone (cell has no reception in heavy cloud cover) or my internet. Thus, the proof that copper land line technology is not only not obsolete but that wireless delivery of communication is less than reliable.

I have a backup supply of energy and water too for when the traditional power lines fail, electrical energy is interrupted, or water lines burst.

IMO, to rely only on one source for any utility is unwise at best.

Of course, YMMV.
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Old 08-17-2010, 12:23 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lifelongMOgal View Post
My satellite TV goes down during every ice and thunderstorm. I don't want the same happening to my phone (cell has no reception in heavy cloud cover) or my internet. Thus, the proof that copper land line technology is not only not obsolete but that wireless delivery of communication is less than reliable.

I have a backup supply of energy and water too for when the traditional power lines fail, electrical energy is interrupted, or water lines burst.

IMO, to rely only on one source for any utility is unwise at best.

Of course, YMMV.
Bravo. Sustainable resources. That is what I am all about! Communications in this country are diverse. Power should be just as diverse.

Well said! I have not experienced a loss of being able to communicate with my cell, I have dropped calls, then I call them back quickly. Copper lines have a limited bandwidth, and in this information era they will just not do... Fiber optics are so much better.
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Old 08-17-2010, 12:30 PM
 
29,988 posts, read 37,133,594 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Werone View Post
Bravo. Sustainable resources. That is what I am all about! Communications in this country are diverse. Power should be just as diverse.

Well said! I have not experienced a loss of being able to communicate with my cell, I have dropped calls, then I call them back quickly. Copper lines have a limited bandwidth, and in this information era they will just not do... Fiber optics are so much better.
Sustainable resources have their limitations. One cannot run a chainsaw to remove trees from power lines following an ice storm on solar power. The sun does not always shine and the wind does not always blow. Back-up batteries only last so long.

Fiber optics are not realistic for the majority who live in rural locations rather than within large cities and smaller town city limits. I have been told it will never exist for these rural areas/farmsteads as the push to go with wireless based home communication services will render rural fiber-optic too expensive.

I'd also point out that in NYC on 9/11/2000 and the immediate aftermath (and other areas of the country as well), cell phone providers were stretched beyond their capability to provide service.

The realistic limitations of renewable resources must be honestly discussed while simultaneously improving their efficiency and capitalizing on their utilization in those areas of the country where they can be most abundantly produced and utilized. Renewable resources are but one key to solving the puzzle of our energy independence.
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Old 08-17-2010, 01:50 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lifelongMOgal View Post
Sustainable resources have their limitations.
Everything has limitations.
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Old 08-17-2010, 02:27 PM
 
29,988 posts, read 37,133,594 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Werone View Post
Everything has limitations.
That the above quip was the only thing you chose to take from my posts is very telling of your williness to discuss renewable resources in an open and honest manner. Very disappointing.
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Old 08-17-2010, 03:23 PM
 
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Originally Posted by lifelongMOgal View Post
That the above quip was the only thing you chose to take from my posts is very telling of your williness to discuss renewable resources in an open and honest manner. Very disappointing.
Distributed generation works and works well. It is a very well organized, thoughtful solution that reduces our oil and natural gas dependencies. What is the issue you are looking to expand upon? I know most of the issues.. so I ask, what is it that you are arguing? What would you like to know?
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Old 08-17-2010, 04:32 PM
 
Location: Itinerant
6,176 posts, read 4,145,458 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lifelongMogal
Sustainable resources have their limitations. One cannot run a chainsaw to remove trees from power lines following an ice storm on solar power. The sun does not always shine and the wind does not always blow. Back-up batteries only last so long.

Fiber optics are not realistic for the majority who live in rural locations rather than within large cities and smaller town city limits. I have been told it will never exist for these rural areas/farmsteads as the push to go with wireless based home communication services will render rural fiber-optic too expensive.

I'd also point out that in NYC on 9/11/2000 and the immediate aftermath (and other areas of the country as well), cell phone providers were stretched beyond their capability to provide service.

The realistic limitations of renewable resources must be honestly discussed while simultaneously improving their efficiency and capitalizing on their utilization in those areas of the country where they can be most abundantly produced and utilized. Renewable resources are but one key to solving the puzzle of our energy independence.
Sure you could run a chainsaw, we can get roughly 20% output from our panels in the winter under moonlight, much more than enough to charge a battery for a cordless chainsaw. You don't need direct sunlight for solar, just incident light (the panels work more efficiently the colder they are too).

Fiber optics are actually more reasonable per user in rural locations than copper, they are cheaper, require fewer signal re-generators and amplifiers (copper runs are limited to 2.5km compared to fiber that can run 200km) generally this runs at 1/100 the cost per user. I think you might be surprised at how much fiber optic is in the ground to rural locations.

Wireless is cheaper, yes, because the data streams don't require any infrastructure beyond transmitters and receivers, and directional transmitters don't need a huge amount of power. For instance my satellite internet has a 1 watt transmitter that hits a satellite in geosync orbit on the equator at about 22k miles altitude so nearly 22,230 miles to the satellite not bad on only 1 watt of power. For comparison my FRS/GMRS walkie omnidirectional transmitter has working 5 miles radius and a transmitter power of 0.5W. Equipment cost for the satellite system was $150.

The 9/11 communications lock up applied to telecommunications period land lines and cell carriers since cell carriers only carry to the telco/network backbone. This is not surprising since telco's base their bandwidth requirements on average and peak usage. 9/11 was a super peak, and led to many people not being able to get though for a significant period of time.

However if the same number of people were doing the same thing in the 60's then instead of having the system overloaded for hours, it might have been days, the mail might have been faster means of communication. One point of interest however from cellular, I contacted a friend in Manhattan at the time with an SMS message and was responded to in 5 minutes of sending, this is not possible with analog switched phone systems. Now on the main data networks (the internet) there was minimal disruption, I had IM communications with people in NY, Arlington, Bethesda, DC and surrounding areas.

On the resources front, resources are neither sustainable nor unsustainable, the defining factor to all sustainability is consumption to production.

This applies to renewable and nonrenewable resources, however nonrenewables lifespan is defined by the consumption rate, production rate and total reserves. Ultimately everything all boils down to overall population since that's the biggest defining factor for consumption, for instance the world can support 2 Billion people who consume resources in the same way as the US with current technologies, this is bad news since we're currently at about 6.5 Billion population on the planet.
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Old 08-17-2010, 05:10 PM
 
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Resources are by definition, in limited supply. If managed in a way that allows yearly yields, and those yearly yields either grow or stay the same, then the resource is said to be sustainable. Non-renewables are used and cannot be replaced. Non-renewable resources cannot be sustained, the supply decreases and cannot be replaced.
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Old 08-17-2010, 05:18 PM
 
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"Renewable resources are but one key to solving the puzzle of our energy independence"

What alternative do we have? The only resource that will be here with infinite life is a resource that is renewable.
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Old 08-17-2010, 09:43 PM
 
Location: Lafayette, Louisiana
14,095 posts, read 23,641,518 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Werone View Post
Communication is going wireless and using fiber optics. The copperlandline has come full circle and is obsolete. The copper landline limits bandwith immensely, so communication has progressed.
During and after Hurricane Lilli we lost cable and cell phone service. My land line phone still worked. I keep a corded phone in my house for when the electricity goes out. Can't make a call with a cordless phone without electricity. Also, if you dial 911 from your home phone and can't talk, the operator can tell the police where you're located. If you dial 911 from a cell phone, it'll take them longer to find your location and even then it won't be exact.
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