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Old 07-01-2016, 10:28 AM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
3,040 posts, read 5,002,363 times
Reputation: 3422

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Quote:
Originally Posted by DCforever View Post
We had fires and floods back then too. Things that occur naturally are not necessarily desirable. We try to minimize fires in occupied areas, whether natural or man made.

What we will eventually be able to control is a subject that hasn't even begun to be discussed, but I don't believe that the climatic temperature swings we have seen in the past are necessarily immutable.
There are conditions that are completely out of our control in regard to climate change and these conditions take place on a huge time scale. For example: The tilt of the earth, the tilt of the earth varies from 22 degrees to 25 degrees on a 41,000 year cycle. You also have the "perihelion" which is earth closest approach to the sun, which effects changes in cycles due to the precession of the equinoxes, which have cycles of 22,000 years. This effects the weather which can cause milder winters or server winters, 11,000 year ago the perihelion happened in July, today it happens in January. Then you combine the eccentricity of the earth's orbit which changes on a 100,000 year cycle and you have the recipes for climate change on a massive change without any help from humans. Just where we are in the combined cycles of all of this, it creating a warmer earth for the last 11,000 years.
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Old 07-01-2016, 05:30 PM
 
Location: DC
6,848 posts, read 7,995,391 times
Reputation: 3572
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe33 View Post
Its human nature. Its called greed.

If you are dumb enough to believe that the average person wont try to trick you for their own benefit, You will be in for a rude awakening.
You are being tricked, but it is Exxon that is doing it to you.
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Old 07-01-2016, 10:28 PM
 
Location: Montgomery County, PA
16,569 posts, read 15,278,266 times
Reputation: 14591
Quote:
Originally Posted by TransplantedPeach View Post
Yes, I accepted tax credits.
You do realize that the manufacturers roll the subsidy into their pricing. They no incentive to lower their costs because in effect the government picks up the tab. To make a point, if the government decides to offer a million dollars worth of subsidy to retrofit a 1200 sq.ft home, that retrofit will never cost less than a million dollars. I have no reason to be against solar but look around at new construction by big builders. There are virtually no solar homes going up, and that is with subsidies. In fact, I saw more solar roof panels in the 70s than I do now.
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Old 07-02-2016, 11:10 AM
 
Location: DC
6,848 posts, read 7,995,391 times
Reputation: 3572
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyRider View Post
You do realize that the manufacturers roll the subsidy into their pricing. They no incentive to lower their costs because in effect the government picks up the tab. To make a point, if the government decides to offer a million dollars worth of subsidy to retrofit a 1200 sq.ft home, that retrofit will never cost less than a million dollars. I have no reason to be against solar but look around at new construction by big builders. There are virtually no solar homes going up, and that is with subsidies. In fact, I saw more solar roof panels in the 70s than I do now.
That's why so many pv manufacturers are in financial distress and the price of panels has dropped from $4-5/watt to less than $1/watt.

Think through what you want to say and check the data. You'll embarrass your parents less frequently.
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Old 07-02-2016, 03:49 PM
 
1,168 posts, read 1,227,511 times
Reputation: 1435
Quote:
Originally Posted by DCforever View Post
That's why so many pv manufacturers are in financial distress and the price of panels has dropped from $4-5/watt to less than $1/watt.

Think through what you want to say and check the data. You'll embarrass your parents less frequently.

PV pricing has dropped because the gougers are out of it and it has become a commodity.
There are still carbon credits rolled into it. Polycrystalline PV's cost about $.15 per watt to produce so there is still some drop in price on the horizon. Thin film is up and coming and the price is droping rapidly as they gougers get out and move their money to other product.
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Old 07-02-2016, 08:02 PM
 
Location: DC
6,848 posts, read 7,995,391 times
Reputation: 3572
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe33 View Post
PV pricing has dropped because the gougers are out of it and it has become a commodity.
There are still carbon credits rolled into it. Polycrystalline PV's cost about $.15 per watt to produce so there is still some drop in price on the horizon. Thin film is up and coming and the price is droping rapidly as they gougers get out and move their money to other product.
All businessmen are gougers. One gouger keeps the other honest. The price of PV modules is a great DOE success.
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