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Someday more people will wake up to how insane it is to destroy our environment to obtain the last little bits of a declining resource. But probably only when more communities are in the same situation as Centralia, PA or Picher, OK because of the exploitation.
...But probably only when more communities are in the same situation as Centralia, PA
The practice was too use old stripping pits for dumps, that's what they were doing there. The dump caught on fire which started the mine fire.
At some point what is probably going to happen there is they will go in and remove the coal. It's not really the coal that burns as that requires a lot of oxygen. If you had a pile of coal in your basement and your house burned down there is still going to be a pile of coal there. It's the gases from the coal in the porous rock that burn.
This could not happen today with any new mining activity because we don't use stripping holes for dumps and they are reclaimed. Matter of fact it's new coal mining activity that pays to reclaim these old abandoned mining areas where the potential for a mine fire starting exists.
The latest news article states that is is NOT "fracking wells" that are causing the earthquakes, it is the waste water injection wells! the waste water injection is lubricating the faults, allowing them to slip, causing the earthquakes.
Again, the problems is NOT (apparently) fracking. It is waste water injection.
"Again, I will remind you that there is no 'proof' or absolute certainty in science."
I find that statement vastly amusing! My son, the Navy trained Nuclear Engineer, would find it even more so!
You are correct that the earthquakes are caused by waste water injection wells, as we have been discussing in many of the previous posts in this thread. However, where do you think the waste water that is being disposed of is coming from?
As to finding the scientific method amusing, I am not sure how your amusement or you sons occupation (as an engineer no less) is in any way relevant. You (and your son) may want to read a little more about how the scientific method works. Here is a great resource from Berkley for the non-scientist explaining how science works and the fallacy of "scientific proof": Science aims to explain and understand
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redraven
The latest news article states that is is NOT "fracking wells" that are causing the earthquakes, it is the waste water injection wells! the waste water injection is lubricating the faults, allowing them to slip, causing the earthquakes.
Again, the problems is NOT (apparently) fracking. It is waste water injection.
"Again, I will remind you that there is no 'proof' or absolute certainty in science."
I find that statement vastly amusing! My son, the Navy trained Nuclear Engineer, would find it even more so!
Apparently, you actually BELIEVE that there is "no proof or absolute certainty" in science.
If such is the case (and it is obvious it is), there is nothing I can say, no example I can give, that will in any way change that belief.
I, however, am well aware of many things in the various branches of "science" that have been proven, and are accepted as absolute certainties.
But then, I are jus' a dumb ol' retired mechanic.
I yield to the greater education.
There is nothing in science taken as absolute that is not subject to change if we learn more about it. Engineering relies heavily on math and leaving enough wiggle room for unpredictable weaknesses or structural members or failures of whatever technology is being used, and such. When it comes to nature few rules really exist. It comes down to what the bulk of the evidence suggests and some statistical analysis suggests about the likely spread of the results. I've been doing some research lately on tree diseases. The final report will not say an absolute "trees in X sites will get this disease" it's going to be "trees in x sites are x percent more likely, with a min and max percentages of a and b at the 95% confidence level, than trees on y sites to get this disease, based on study of a sample size of z trees in this particular region."
The fact is if we get numbers like we're seeing with the earthquakes and the fracking related activities (be it disposal or whatever), the reasonable answer is to consider there to be a problem with something the fracking involves.
The practice was too use old stripping pits for dumps, that's what they were doing there. The dump caught on fire which started the mine fire.
At some point what is probably going to happen there is they will go in and remove the coal. It's not really the coal that burns as that requires a lot of oxygen. If you had a pile of coal in your basement and your house burned down there is still going to be a pile of coal there. It's the gases from the coal in the porous rock that burn.
This could not happen today with any new mining activity because we don't use stripping holes for dumps and they are reclaimed. Matter of fact it's new coal mining activity that pays to reclaim these old abandoned mining areas where the potential for a mine fire starting exists.
For every old bad practice banned we get a new bad practice. Fracking and such as this thread is about. Blasting away the tops of mountains isn't really anymore environmentally friendly than old practices either. Reclamation is a bit of a joke. You'll never see the great forests that once grew on those sites there again. You'll get some weedy junk and that's about it. The good soil's been lost and will take generations to come back.
It wouldn't surprise me if they go in for the coal in Centralia, but they'll probably wait until the last former residents are gone. They've protested for years that the eminent domain was done to steal the mineral rights to the coal.
Clearly if they are causing earthquakes that is a very big concern but as mentioned it's the disposal wells and there is other means to dispose of the water but more expensive. Obviously it would have to be very big coincidence to have all these earthquakes occurring as this practice increased.
Quote:
Reclamation is a bit of a joke. You'll never see the great forests that once grew on those sites there again. You'll get some weedy junk and that's about it. The good soil's been lost and will take generations to come back.
It takes time but it comes back. there is sites near me that were never reclaimed that might be 100 years old that are slowly coming back. Not sure why but white birch loves culm. The ones they have reclaimed 20 or 30 years ago now have a lot of small trees, some hardwoods and others. 100 years from now you won't even know it was stripped.
1. Disposal wells aren't fractured.
2. Production, not fracturing, accounts for the bulk of the water disposed of at SWDs (disposal wells).
Anyone who wants to reduce the amount of groundwater being pumped to the surface for fracturing (and then being pumped down a disposal well) needs to contact their elected officials and push for tax credits (or write-offs) for companies that buy recycled water (instead of groundwater) for frac jobs, and for companies that recycle their water rather than disposing of it.
All joking aside, I'd be most upset/worried about the possible water quality issues for people who have nearby wells. Supposedly it's all safe and OK but who's to say it's not going to eventually contaminate the ground water. Say 5-10-20 years from now? I surely wouldn't want my well in a highly cracked area.
Ever heard of casing? That, plus the tubing, is what keeps frac fluid from escaping into aquifers as it flows down into the target formation.
Oil-bearing formations, where fracturing takes place, are located hundreds (if not thousands) of feet below aquifers.
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