Energy from methane in landfills (recycling, gas, heating, buy)

[vec101]

Anyone familiar with energy generated from the methane in landfills? Is the plant noisy? Has there been reports of problems?

There is a lot of info to read at Environmental Protection Agency - LMOP: Basic Information (http://www.epa.gov/lmop/overview.htm - broken link)
but I just want wondering if anyone had first hand experience or knowledge with this?

It seems like a good idea.

Instead of allowing LFG to escape into the air, it can be captured, converted, and used as an energy source. Using LFG helps to reduce odors and other hazards associated with LFG emissions, and it helps prevent methane from migrating into the atmosphere and contributing to local smog and global climate change.

Landfill gas is extracted from landfills using a series of wells and a blower/flare (or vacuum) system. This system directs the collected gas to a central point where it can be processed and treated depending upon the ultimate use for the gas. From this point, the gas can be simply flared or used to generate electricity, replace fossil fuels in industrial and manufacturing operations, fuel greenhouse operations, or be upgraded to pipeline quality gas. Environmental Protection Agency - LMOP: Basic Information (http://www.epa.gov/lmop/overview.htm - broken link)

[BrokenTap]

I think it is a good idea overall. We are reducing waste every year and we are recycling at a better rate, but until we can convince society and manufacturers that those little bubble packets on EVERYTHING we get are not really needed, landfills are a necessity of society. If we can divert some built up methane and produce a bit of power I am for it.

I have no idea what these units have for noise levels, but I have often wondered if domestic power and domestic heat could not be methane derived.

Its an outside the box kind of idea, but I noticed that the ice over wetlands and swamps was always very thin and the reason stems from the heat generated from these wet area being laden with vegetation that is decaying. I often wondered if putting loops of pex piping out through these wetlands could heat my home?

What makes that possible is a high tech radiant floor heating system I have. I only need 75º-100º water to heat my concrete slab. If a home was situated close to a wetland area, and their heating system was like mine, could circulated water heated by the natural heat from these wetlands keep the propane boiler from coming on? Even if it reduced the boiler's usage during the fall and spring it would certainly help. It would also encourage people to preserve and use wetlands since installing pex pipe would not be damaging anyway to the wetland...just drawing some of the heat from it?

Going a step further, and tying this in with the original posters thoughts, could a small scale collection system being installed to draw of the methane produced by these wetlands? It could be collected and added to the propane system of the house, or be used to power a generator. I think the collector might have to be so large though that this would be impractical for a home.

Again just some crazy thoughts this AM that anyone is free to throw darts at.

[thecoalman]

They're doing the same thing with some coal mines and farms as well.

Originally Posted by BrokenTap

but until we can convince society and manufacturers that those little bubble packets on EVERYTHING we get are not really needed, landfills are a necessity of society.

Here's a real estate tip for you, buy up that landfill when it's capped and for sale. Don't build anything on it. Make sure it's one that was in service long before recycling became normal. Your great Grandkids will be billionaires... probably trillionaires at that point.

It's waste at the moment but those landfills will goldmines... literally... in the future.


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LOL... my spellchecker doesn't like the word trillionaire.

[JMadison]

Tucson is already doing this. Might want to google around on that.

[my54ford]

I have in depth experience with LFG power generation as a project developer and manager for a 1.6 MW project in Minnesota. We are currently on hold awaiting a permit from the MPCA but when those goons are done we'll go to the build phase with production planned for late '09 early'10........
As for sound specifically every unit is different and it depends totally on the noise restrictions in your area. Any sound level can be achieved it's just a matter of how much you want to spend....
If you have more questions please ask....
Todd
I actually have a pretty good power point I could share if anybody wants it. It's older and some of the cost shown are now higher and some of the tax credit/incentives have changed.....

[vec101]

TY.

Googled Tucson - found technical type info. But posted in AZ CD forum.

[vec101]

Originally Posted by my54ford

I have in depth experience with LFG power generation as a project developer and manager for a 1.6 MW project in Minnesota. We are currently on hold awaiting a permit from the MPCA but when those goons are done we'll go to the build phase with production planned for late '09 early'10........
As for sound specifically every unit is different and it depends totally on the noise restrictions in your area. Any sound level can be achieved it's just a matter of how much you want to spend....
If you have more questions please ask....
Todd
I actually have a pretty good power point I could share if anybody wants it. It's older and some of the cost shown are now higher and some of the tax credit/incentives have changed.....

That's a relief about the sound thing. The one proposed in our area is pretty near residential areas (also near 2 city councilman) so hopefully this will be addressed.

Any other negatives regarding "located near residential areas" that you are aware of?

[my54ford]

Originally Posted by vec101

That's a relief about the sound thing. The one proposed in our area is pretty near residential areas (also near 2 city councilman) so hopefully this will be addressed.

Any other negatives regarding "located near residential areas" that you are aware of?

We did have several people comment during the public comment phase of the permit process. The main concern was the potential for increased truck traffic at the landfill (open) The MPCA is making us do an AERA (Air analysis risk assesment) which is an in depth analysis of all emission points including fugitive dust etc. Won't kill the project but it has delayed it a year now. and increased cost (Still cheaper then wind).....Another case of people who want renewable energy as long as it's not in their nieghborhood

[rlchurch]

The important issue for a noise standpoint is the combustion technology, which is usually internal combustion engine or small combustion turbine. Both can be quieted. LFG generation is a great, though limited resource. If not burned the methane will eventually get into the atmosphere where it's more damaging than CO2.

[snkalaska]

Using landfill gas for fuel cells is ideal and moving along. No noise, no CO2 emissions.
Northeast Utilities of Berlin, Connecticut, sponsored this demonstration to test the fuel cell as an environmentally responsible and viable energy resource. William Stillinger, Director of Research and Technology for Northeast Utilities, said the utility was particularly interested in the "environmental superiority of fuel cells in sensitive urban settings, where issues of environmental justice are being raised and where air emissions and noise from conventional generating units are local liabilities."
Results of the Flanders Road Landfill demonstration were encouraging, with the fuel cell providing approximately 140 kilowatts of electricity to the Connecticut Light and Power Company, a subsidiary of Northeast Utilities that serves 1.1 million residential and commercial/industrial customers in 149 Connecticut communities.