The Truths of Greenville, SC From Someone Born and Raised Here (Spartanburg: real estate, condo)

[sojones]

Greetings,

I saw the post about 'did you regret moving to Greenville, SC" and decide to reply to that thread with my own.

First, I have lived in the smallest places of GA to Greenville, SC and also lived in New York City (Astoria, Manhattan) / Jersey City

I decided I would make a comparison of how living here has been and currently is changing.

<center>Lets Start With The Cons:</center>
1) Greenville, SC is not very diverse. It's not a well cultured city but there are a lot of different cultures inhabiting the metro.

2) Professional Jobs for minorities lack heavily in my eyes. Yes, you can get a good job but but a glass ceiling can be hit easily as theres' still a lot of racial tension here. (For instance; There's a Klu Klux Klan shop right around the corner in Laurens, SC that the state of South Carolina is allowing to operate and make death threats to people of african and latin descent in newspapers without action taking against them. That's huge in my books)

3) For kids there is low entertainment. I'm still young and grew up here. If you're a minority there's very little for your child to do here and I would reccomend 2nd thinking moving here on a whim or a small financial improvement for the simple fact, most minorities here will end up in or around some negative situations. HOWEVER, it is improving but for lack of a better word "its gangster" out here. And I'm just being blunt. I've seen some really good people come here and there children went from honor roll to felons/prison inmates. However, I've seen a many of people progress and go forward to move out to other areas as well so don't think you can't keep your child out of that crowd. Hey, I made it but still, even then, I've got a few skeletons in the closet

Until they get entertainment here the youth will be violent. I've never been to a club here that's for the 'urban crowd' that had a positive vibe and went without a parking lot shooting or stabbing / beating....... it was/probably still is quite the norm. I can't really attest to those for the 'pop' crowd but usually if it's mixed, it's pretty racist. Clubs like "Sportys", formerly Game Time told me I could not enter their club b/c I had on a basketball jersey and jeans but allowed a white guy with the same thing on, who i happened to recognize, in before me............ Gators has managed to keep it pretty classy for minorties however from what i knew. It's not really that entertaining though. Dance floor is like 20 square feet It's really moreso a bar I guess?

4) Relgion, Schooling, and Politics are scandelous. BADLY. VERY VERY BADLY. Churches are (from my view) forcing major entertainment venues and businesses to keep them quiet to move into the area and that kills the city's entertainment value once again. Unless you like fishing all day and mountains (some of my hobbies), I mean... the only thing to do here is workout @ gym (first 24 hour gym just opened here in the last few months), maybe go bowling but you will come out smelling like a pack of cigarettes, ughh.. Frankie's fun park (a quaint fun park for kids.... nothing for people in college level+ imo)

But back to Politics... Tax dollars here are very badly misused. WE've had roads under construction for 5 year periods and the city would swear we were paying for it each year. Not to mention we had a bridge they knocked down one time nad just left it down. lol After taxes supposedly paid for it.

School board operators are taking money. End of story. There's one guy, I won't mention his name but he came from one area then came to the Upstate hopping school to school and money went missing at each. He resigned eventually after a tragedy struck.

Oh and last but not least, the city will try to horrendously overcharge you for car taxes if you dont' call them in the month your taxes are due, and have an affidavit or something similiar form a car dealership disputing the hiked-up price they claim your car is worth.


5) SCHOOLING: Anybody who knows what real schooling is will not sit here and say SC has the best schools in the United States. We are rated with high drop out rates (which i can attest to living here) and have scoring stats show we are one of the lowest performing states in the nation.

Without culture, you can not have education. I had a Spanish course in high school that taught you how to speak spanish.... wrong.. not completely but a lot of error was in it.

Not to mention, in having friends from NYC who discuss education, the basics have a huge gap. Mainly in culture/history studies however. There's a lot SC can't teach without a portion the white community getting upset (open honesty) and they seem to have influence in school politics. Everyone here should know this. The schooling for people that are on or below the poverty level is good and bad. Southside high school is in a predominatly African and Latin descent community and they have a "IB" program that is awesome. However, no other school in the city is like that on a sad note; that i know of.

Mauldin, Hillcrest, and Southside high school ... FOR STUDENT LIFESTYLE... is probably the most culturally diverse and acceptant schools in the Greenville Metro.

College wise, Spartanburg, SC has some pretty good colleges for minorities but Greenville has a horrid history of racial tension at schools. Especially Bob Jones University. I think the best kept secret that does have some diversity, great for your resume, and they really focus on the student's results and not race is Furman University. It's pretty diverse and accomodating on the campus.

Clemson's lacking majorly for it's size but if you can get it, should be ok.


6) Independant networking / marketing / business for minorities suck! The Palmetto expo center, I came from NY trying to host an urban & Hip Hop fashions how with guests from Michigan, NY, PA, and other places in attendance. Celebrities performing. This racially-biased company intentionally did things to prevent people from entering. I had a call to the VP of the company over it who's in PA (a much more culturally aware and actively acceptant state) and he couldn't believe what happened either.

I feel like it's very hard for minorities to run independent business here b/c of the lack of well paying employment to other minorities. If you depend on networking with them, how can you profit? That simple


7) Breaking down culture! Before I left, it was pretty much a black / white area. And let me help you understand things here.... If you're of anything Afro-descent, you're black. Don't get me wrong, you might know you're Dominican, Cuban, Gullah, Puerto Rican, Brazilian, Hatian, etc BUT they don't separate, embrace, and celebrate culture here.

As I've come back however, a lot of things changed. As many of you may know, The African-descent community is strongly linked when you speak of Dominicanos, Cubanos, Gullah, Ricans, etc and we all know this but you still have seperate cultures that we can celebrate and come togethor for our african heritage / understanding one another at the same time.

Greenville has definitely had a lot more culturally aware people move here... You see the flags of pride in cars and on chains a lot of places now which I personally find refreshing and love to see it! It can't be so racially one way forever.

I miss being able to goto Cuban restaurants in NY for the dumplings and Rice. Or what about the REAL pizza moms and pops restaurants. You can't really get that here.

8) GROWTH here is pretty phenomenal (sp?) at this point. A lot of jobs are opening and these companies are more culturally diverse so I expect to see more change but it has not quite hit yet. I see a lot of culture coming into the area but not in the form of celebrated business. There's things here like Thai, Indian, Mexican, but so much more is missing........ if you've lived in a major city outside of the south (excluding Florida), you understand me!

9) POLICE here ...... good and bad.. I was pulled over here 3 times in less than 2 months for what I call DWB. One time a police over hunted me down through cars after seeing me drive by, only to have her ticket dismissed in court and she didn't even show; She had no reason to chase me down when i was driving the speed limit and had already weaved through slower traffic. The only thing she could have seen is my face and then ran my tag after catching up approx 5 mins later. I've had some good experiences too though where guys waived my tickets and were friendly but still the fact I felt i was pulled over for DWB is unsettling

At minority 'hang outs' they do pick on the teens a lot. They will make minorities move if they stop to talk to one another. I'm not sure since when a mall can be so racially biased but if you're a minority at a mall out here, i don't know if the rule was lifted by SIMON, but you could onot be under 18 without supervision. I admit, there's a lot of problems but you can't take the kids money and minorities money but then single them out like that. That's horrible morally.

Judicial system, it was great for my family court case however! The judge was really leniant and helped me. The same with my ticket the police officer previously gave me. I'm not sure what it would be like to be in some other shoes b/c i'm pretty positive but from my experience, judges here were great. No racial bias felt in my 2 situationslol


10) Travel / The AirPOrt;
Greenville-Spartanburg Airport has GOT TO BE ONE OF THE WORST AIRPORTS I'VE EVER LIVED TO USE. They only allow one cab service I believe to run free business at the airport and they charge rates around 3 times the costs of those in NY. A 10 minute ride cost me $35 ............................ each time i hit the airport.

To park your car in the decks , it's another ridicilous fee. Just google the airport's name to check rates. They are higher than Charlotte, a MUCH BIGGER airport.

Cost to travel in and out of the airport are horrible. Luckily I'm self-employed and not based in SC so I can travel freely and go based on the best deal offered. But if you're planning trips, the airport in Greenville, from my experience, on average will charge you double or triple the rates of those in Atlanta, Charlotte, NYC and that's why most people drive to those places to fly out.


11) The dating scene here.... hahah.... I went from Dating models and classic females regularly to having to scour pretty hardly to talk to educated minority females of anything afro or latin descent. They are hidden out here i'm sure but WOW. IF ever the term drought applied to dating, this city for a minority with educated interests, is a drought like no other! Lol But i'm Ok b/c I have a son and travel.... Just a forewarning to the bro's out there b/c my friends from NY say they won't touch a step here b/c of that lol







THE PRO'S:
1) Cost of Living / housing:
Lol You can buy a house / townhome out here at a wonderful price. If you live in NYC and want to move your family to a nice environment for a great price... this is great. But be cautious of area you pick and try to move into an area that has people from other areas to save yourself some unwanted vibes

2) Nature:
If youre into the nature scene... You can go on some beautiful nature traiils up in the mountains and state parks. Fishing here is pretty good. Lots of lakes for water skiing, fishing, swimming, etc. Beaches aren't too far either

3) Location:
Granted the city itself lacks entertainment, you're not far at all from Atlanta or Charlotte. I Drive to Charlotte (about an 1:15 away) to see some Bobcats games and hang with friends in Atlanta (about 2 hours away) about once a month to each if i have the free time. Nice discounted shopping outlets along the way in each direction.

4) Fashion /Shopping in Greenville Sc... ahhaa.... don't make me laugh! Bannana Republic and American Eagle.. and ughh... the gap... etc.. are the hot spots.... it's not a trendy city ... I work in fashion..... there's some eccentric here that pull it togethor though but it's not ready access. On the up side, I'm very athletic and love the outlets in Gaffney, SC (about 30 mintues out)

5) Community / Friendliness:
A lot of people here a friendly. I feel most are not sincere but ofr what it's worth, when a lot of communities here are built off of people migrating from other places.. you find very pleasant environments. Old ways exist in a lot of long-existing community.

Friends who move here from other cities say they do feel a lot of 'cliques' exist here to forewarn you.

6) If you're a positve person who's open to a lot of things Greenville might be able to entertain you with the right group of friends and famliy surrounding. While entertainment is low, the common things like bowling, cafe hangouts, lounges downtown, and the bridge downtown (for lovers only loL) are quite soothing. If you need the night life, which most younger people appreciate, might have a hard time staying out of depression.. But again, LIFE IS WHAT YOU MAKE IT... but i understand the need for things you're previously accustomed to for those moving in.. I have fun taking my son to the Hollywild animal park here, it's great for kids under the teen years

7) While I say i miss the cultural food.. there's some good local food eateries too but it's hard to be health concious here. Transfat and fast food are VERY VERY Dominant here! But there's still some very good places! A lot of friends of mine are trying to bring culinary arts and culture to the city. I expect more in 2 years!

8) the job market in 2 years here will allow for great expansion! There should be a RUSH OF PEOPLE coming here. If your'e looking for a job just check out the "Millenia Campus" on google.. if not spelled that way try "Millenium Campus of Greenville" .

9) The beaches of SC are awesome........ NEVER shall i stop falling in love with Edisto beach..... one of the significant places for my people of Gullah Culture like I

10) oh, the Cherokee Casinos. It's about an hour away from here i believe. It's really nice for a family outing to add to entertainment but not technically in Greenville or just a short ride so I made it another point!

11) Religon... if your'e an overly religous christian or catholic person this might be for you.

12) Parks ........... plenty of them here.. probably one every mile here in Mauldin, SC I love going out there with my son, playing basketball, kicking the futbol around, ect

13) Woodruff Road ......... If you can live near it.. haha.. it's the place to be! Everything you need is accessible here just about and the location is premium to interstate and good schooling


well.. that's all I care to right 2nite. Hope you all appreciate the honest/blunt information from someone who's lived here most of his life and lived in New York City (and elsewehre) for years. I understand both perspectives and thought I'd share

[sojones]

ps:
I was interested in buying a condo in Greenville, SC at o ne point when moving around in NYC but i decided quickly against it

the prices are comparable to the Charlotte and Atlanta markets which are much larger, more advanced cities. That should not be................. the downtown had no vision in its construction and is not a great living place in my opinion

The main street is one lane each way and can not be expanded

think about that and compare to Charlotte or Atlanta..........

[Skyliner]

Each person is entitled to an opinion and fortunately for most of us yours is among a handful (if that) of similar perspectives. If your statements were true of most, Greenville would be dwindling away instead of growing and becoming one of the major mid-sized metros in the nation. To say the city has no vision is completely ignorant. A small amount of research would prove otherwise.

[Art123]

Hey sojones,

Thanks for all your input. It helps to have different perspectives on this forum, as well as in Greenville, I suppose. One thing that people from the South don't realize is just how segregated it still is there. The people with power seldom want to give it up readily. Please keep posting your opinions on here as you have time. It's nice to hear a (probably) more realistic view of the area, at least from the point of view of those who are not white, or not christian, or both.

[sojones]

Originally Posted by Art123

Hey sojones,

Thanks for all your input. It helps to have different perspectives on this forum, as well as in Greenville, I suppose. One thing that people from the South don't realize is just how segregated it still is there. The people with power seldom want to give it up readily. Please keep posting your opinions on here as you have time. It's nice to hear a (probably) more realistic view of the area, at least from the point of view of those who are not white, or not christian, or both.

The downtown, when created, had no vision................... What other downtown have you been to in the nation, that's a major city, has 1 lane each way for traffic on the the one main strip?

Charlotte... Tryon... No
Atlanta....... no
New York.. No
San Francisco.... No
Denver... No
Las Vegas, definitely not............

Greenville has not hit a 'boom' as of right now. So to make a statement like it has some huge growth, is not true.

In the last 2 years, most of the major real estate companies have folded out in Greenville and taken loses here b/c there's not enough people to buy the homes on the market; which is good for a buyer but bad when you resale if too early. If you know your business, then you know this is true........ I discussed this with some top company real estate agents in Greenville.

I've studied this city's statistics the last 5 years. Mauldin and Simpsonville grow faster technically.

Downtown is not even the focus of Greenville's building anymore. It's the area that Mauldin and Greenville meet with interests spawning off to Simpsonville. Greeer is doing well by itself.
-Woodruff Road
-Millenia Campus
-Laurens Road will be coming back strong b/c Woodruff Road leads to it but it will take a while
- The township at Verdae
- the Township in Simpsonville (not sure of name)
- Fairview Road in Simpsonville

Downtown has no real attractions / entertainment value. So whoever would live there, in the center of a lot of bad areas crime wise, would more than likely only do so b/c they work there or have never lived here to know what they are doing.

That bridge is not going to keep people who live here coming back every day like "oh that was fun".................... it's a nice thing to take a date under but Greenville needs entertainment... period..............

They turned down the Jillians franchise, whom wanted to build downtown, a few years ago which was another bad move. Jillians is one of the best entertainment themed businesses you can offer in a city. That is why Atlanta has one, Charlotte has one, and others have similiar such as Dave & Busters.

Where have you lived to make such comments?

Originally Posted by City-Data Report

Population (year 2000): 56,002. Estimated population in July 2006: 57,428 (+2.5% change)

Lol and you call this one of the fatest growing mid-sized Metros in the nation? Are you kidding Me?

Raleigh-Durham, NC probably had double that amount of population growth in 2004 alone..........................

Greenville needs a lot of notes taken and people whov'e been making decisions for a while, ousted.

The greatest contributor to this city in the last 100 years as of right now is John D. Hollingsworth.... He had a true vision...........!

[RCfromGreenville]

Interesting perspective. A few counter arguments:

1. Greenville's Main Street was four lanes for many years. It was changed to two lanes (with on street parking and landscaping) at a time when downtown was virtually deserted, as a way to drive development. It was done to emphasize walking, and make it have more of a European feel. That characteristic has been widely praised and is given a lot of credit for the downtown renaissance.
2. I think you will find that from a economic growth and city planning perspective, Greenville's downtown is a role model for lots of other medium sized cities. Typically 10-15 cities a year send delegations to Greenville to find out how they regenerated their downtown area.
3. You can't really measure Greenville's growth by looking at city statistics. Looking at MSA or CSA or County statistics, Greenville has clearly been growing very quickly - as quickly as anywhere in the state over the past 20 years. The city actually lost population for part of the last decade and, as you pointed out, has been growing slowly since then. That's mostly because SC annexation laws are very restrictive. The city is quite small in terms of area covered, and because of all the nearby special purpose districts cannot grow via annexation.
4. Your comments about "most of the major real estate companies" leaving Greenville is flat out wrong. One of Prudential's top firms is in Greenville, and is thriving. One of Coldwell Banker's top firms is in Greenville, and is thriving. So is Century 21. Who has folded?
5. I agree that downtown is not the focus of building anymore. I think that's too bad - like most Southeastern cities cheap land in the suburbs is too tempting, which leads to sprawl. But when most people come to this forum to talk about Greenville, they end up settling in Taylors or Greer or Mauldin or Simpsonville. Btw, most of the people who move to NYC now end up settling somewhere other than Manhattan, and many in somewhere not in the 5 boroughs. So what?
6. Downtown has no real attractions or entertainment value? Excuse me? That's just silly. The BiLo Center was recently rated as the top performing venue of its size in the Carolinas. The Peace Center is widely considered to be the top venue of its type in South Carolina. How about the well regarded County Museum of Art? The Library? The new History Museum? The extension museum of the Bob Jones Art Collection? Falls Park on the Reedy is the most visited tourism spot in Greenville County. The Handlebar? The 90 restaurants downtown? The performance venues at the Bohemian Grill and a number of other restaurants? West End Field, which was recently named the best new ballpark in the US in 2006?

Sojones, Greenville is not for everyone, and I understand clearly that it is not meeting your needs. But for a lot of people who have different needs, it is a very good fit. This forum is trying to give people facts to help them make decisions. I think you have some important things to say. But when you make points that are demonstrably just wrong, it hurts your credibility.

[jpoole52]

I just find it kind of strange that you compare it with Charlotte or Atlanta. Greenville doesn't claim to be either of those, nor would I really want it to be. Those are BIG cities, where Greenville is only mid-size, so it seems ridiculous to compare it with NYC; they are not even comparable.

I really like reading city-data because I like hearing what people have to say about a city that I'm really enjoying calling home, but your post is just plain negative and doesn't really help anyone. I guess if it makes you feel better, and I'm sure you have some completely valid points, but you've obviously lived in the north too long (don't be offended, I'm from the north myself) and have learned to be rather cynical. Yes, I'd like to see more enteratainment, yes I'm sure there are they usually political and social downfall just like there are anywhere, and I'm sorry you're not having the same luck dating as you did in bigger, and obviously more diverse cities.

[gsupstate]

What is that sound I hear? The grinding of an axe maybe?

I'm not sure this much negativity is worth a response, but I will say as for diversity, I'm gay and white, my partner is Jew, our neighbors across are Thai and Catholic with an adopted Chinese daughter. On my street we have German, French, Colombian, and a wonderful Canadian lesbian couple. I've lived in much larger cities prior to Greenville and find Greenville as diverse if not more. Greenville is diverse in the true since of the word.

[Skyliner]

Originally Posted by sojones

...
Lol and you call this one of the fatest growing mid-sized Metros in the nation? Are you kidding Me?

Raleigh-Durham, NC probably had double that amount of population growth in 2004 alone..........................

Your argument has once again proven your ignorance about the true Greenville. You used City population data in an attempt to say that Greenville's metropolitan area is not growing very well. Recent data for Greenville's city population has shown that residential growth within the limits has not been rapid in recent decades. This is nothing new to anyone here, however if you have kept up with the many developments happening around the city and within the city, you would understand my point about Greenville's booming metro population. Both Verdae and The Point alone are expected to bring thousands of new residents into the city within a couple of decades. Residential work within the city has been quite steady lately and is expected to add lots of new residents to the city's population base before the next census report. In case you failed to see it, this growth has been a result of people clamouring to move closer to the vibrant urban life in and around downtown.

Originally Posted by sojones

Greenville needs a lot of notes taken and people whov'e been making decisions for a while, ousted.

How do you explain the fact that dozens of cities from around the nation constantly come to Greenville seeking knowledge and understanding from our city's successful leadership over the past three decades?

Originally Posted by sojones

The greatest contributor to this city in the last 100 years as of right now is John D. Hollingsworth.... He had a true vision...........!

Again, this contradicts your overall point that "Greenville is a boring place to live." Using Hollingsworth's philosophy, people should hoard massive amounts of land and wealth, never allowing it to be developed in their lifetime, while also completely turning their back on family and friends. If more had done this in Greenville, do you honsetly believe the city would be as alive as it is today? Show me where exactly J.D. Hollingsworth literally envisioned the Verdae Development during his life. All indications are that the people he entrusted his vast properties to were the ones who actually created the vision to develop them.

[g-man430]

^^Amen to that brother. Never mess with G-Vegas.