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Heard of a situation where cars were parked on a front lawn with people connected with the house sleeping in them at night. Don't know if the a/c was off in the house or overflow guests or what.
Seems the HOA board tried to get the cars off the lawn. But the cars were in what is called the DOT strip or easement strip. Apparently that means, at least some places, that it's hands off by the board. Because they determined they couldn't do anything because the cars were not far enough back on the home's grass. After so many feet from the yellow line in the road, DOT leaves off and HOA begins. According to these people.
And local LE couldn't do anything either because the tires were only a foot or so into the road, not enough to cause accidents.
Having grown up in a big city, and currently living on a city street, I honestly don't get the issues with parking on a street. It was legal and expected in an urban area. Yeah, our street is essentially one lane most of the time. To me, it's not an annoyance. In fact, it slows down traffic, which I think is a good thing.
And I hate HOA's, and the people who serve on their boards are usually conservative, often nosy, control freaks with way too much time on their hands.
I've owned a home with a HOA and would never do it again. A big problem we ran into was consistency from year to year. When we moved in, the president of the HOA was a close neighbor and we had no issues. When she quit, that all changed. We once got a notice about a dirt dobber nest on our fence, for example.
And we have lived in about 12 hoa/poa situations. Loved them all. And our current one is so bad we won't do it again. One bad apple can indeed be so bad as to spoil the whole bunch.
Having grown up in a big city, and currently living on a city street, I honestly don't get the issues with parking on a street. It was legal and expected in an urban area. Yeah, our street is essentially one lane most of the time. To me, it's not an annoyance. In fact, it slows down traffic, which I think is a good thing.
And I hate HOA's, and the people who serve on their boards are usually conservative, often nosy, control freaks with way too much time on their hands.
I've owned a home with a HOA and would never do it again. A big problem we ran into was consistency from year to year. When we moved in, the president of the HOA was a close neighbor and we had no issues. When she quit, that all changed. We once got a notice about a dirt dobber nest on our fence, for example.
I am very familiar with living downtown in bigger cities, but there are HUGE differences between downtown parking and the kind of parking I am talking about. That is why I have stressed in most of my posts that it is annoying in [i]suburbs[i] when people actually have readily accessible and easy options for NOT parking in the street. I have no problem with it and expect it in more urban areas.
Roads in more urban areas, more often than not, are legally marked and designed some form of street parking in mind. Roads are typically marked such that the street parking does not take up a normal lane of traffic, or if it does, it still leaves room for cars to pass in both directions (ie a 4 lane road with street parking either is designed for street parking to not interfere and allow 4 lanes + street parking, OR even with parking on both sides there are still 2 lanes of egress - one in each direction - that are open). Additionally, in urban areas, spots are relatively clearly marked for parking as well as no-parking which prevents people from parking in front of driveways, directly across from driveways, in front of mailboxes, in front of fire hydrants, etc. More importantly, these street parking spots exist because *it is a necessity* as it is the main form of parking due to a lack of covered or out-of-the-way parking.
In direct contrast, roads in the neighborhoods I am talking about were NOT designed with street parking in mind. They are designed for 2 lanes of traffic total and street parking turns it into 1 lane of traffic. Once you get down to 1 lane of traffic, that is a big difference from having 2 directional traffic. Additionally, nothing is marked for parking in these neighborhoods since they are not designed for regular street parking. And, for some reason, many people need lines to keep them in check. I see people parking way too far away from the curbs, in front of hydrants, too close to mailboxes causing an annoyance for the mailman, etc. Most importantly, these houses have garages and driveways that could easily park 4-6 cars and that were MADE to park these cars, yet people regularly park their cars in the street. Even if it doesn't annoy them for whatever reason, it is fairly inconsiderate to cause the other people to have to deal with a 1-lane road when they have a capable driveway and garage to park in, yet they park on a road that wasn't designed for regular on-road parking.
I've never brought it up to anyone in person in our neighborhood because it's not the end of the world, but personally it just baffles me how inconsiderate someone has to be to park in the street on a regular basis in the neighborhood scenario. The idea of dealing with it in the urban setting vs the suburban setting is really night and day. I street-park all the time in downtown if I am doing something quick and don't plan to park in a deck. But it's designed for it, and I am not in anyone's way. It's not someone else's job to park on the road to "slow" traffic down.
To me, it's just as inconsiderate as just pulling your car to the side of the road and parking on Verdae instead of pulling into the Bi Lo parking lot that was made for parking.
As far as HOAs, I definitely agree with you Art123. I don't necessarily even think an HOA should tell homeowners where they can or can't park, but rather I wish people just used common decency when parking in their neighborhood.
Last edited by Sunbather; 07-26-2013 at 02:48 PM..
Some HOAs try to prevent you from placing an outside antenna on your house. But this is a violation of the law, according to federal OTARD rules. Sometimes you can place an antenna in the attic, but often outside is better. And with more folks cutting cable to reduce expenses, this can be an important consideration.
I am very familiar with living downtown in bigger cities, but there are HUGE differences between downtown parking and the kind of parking I am talking about. That is why I have stressed in most of my posts that it is annoying in [i]suburbs[i] when people actually have readily accessible and easy options for NOT parking in the street. I have no problem with it and expect it in more urban areas.
Roads in more urban areas, more often than not, are legally marked and designed some form of street parking in mind. Roads are typically marked such that the street parking does not take up a normal lane of traffic, or if it does, it still leaves room for cars to pass in both directions (ie a 4 lane road with street parking either is designed for street parking to not interfere and allow 4 lanes + street parking, OR even with parking on both sides there are still 2 lanes of egress - one in each direction - that are open). Additionally, in urban areas, spots are relatively clearly marked for parking as well as no-parking which prevents people from parking in front of driveways, directly across from driveways, in front of mailboxes, in front of fire hydrants, etc. More importantly, these street parking spots exist because *it is a necessity* as it is the main form of parking due to a lack of covered or out-of-the-way parking.
In direct contrast, roads in the neighborhoods I am talking about were NOT designed with street parking in mind. They are designed for 2 lanes of traffic total and street parking turns it into 1 lane of traffic. Once you get down to 1 lane of traffic, that is a big difference from having 2 directional traffic. Additionally, nothing is marked for parking in these neighborhoods since they are not designed for regular street parking. And, for some reason, many people need lines to keep them in check. I see people parking way too far away from the curbs, in front of hydrants, too close to mailboxes causing an annoyance for the mailman, etc. Most importantly, these houses have garages and driveways that could easily park 4-6 cars and that were MADE to park these cars, yet people regularly park their cars in the street. Even if it doesn't annoy them for whatever reason, it is fairly inconsiderate to cause the other people to have to deal with a 1-lane road when they have a capable driveway and garage to park in, yet they park on a road that wasn't designed for regular on-road parking.
I've never brought it up to anyone in person in our neighborhood because it's not the end of the world, but personally it just baffles me how inconsiderate someone has to be to park in the street on a regular basis in the neighborhood scenario. The idea of dealing with it in the urban setting vs the suburban setting is really night and day. I street-park all the time in downtown if I am doing something quick and don't plan to park in a deck. But it's designed for it, and I am not in anyone's way. It's not someone else's job to park on the road to "slow" traffic down.
To me, it's just as inconsiderate as just pulling your car to the side of the road and parking on Verdae instead of pulling into the Bi Lo parking lot that was made for parking.
As far as HOAs, I definitely agree with you Art123. I don't necessarily even think an HOA should tell homeowners where they can or can't park, but rather I wish people just used common decency when parking in their neighborhood.
The street I grew up on, and the street I live on currently, are left with one lane of traffic after people park on either side. These are old neighborhoods (which I love). And I love that it forces people to drive slowly down the street.
However, I have no doubt that you are right that the people in your subdivision are being selfish, have no idea how to park, and should use their garages and driveways rather than the street. The driveways in my hood typically are one lane, and a lot just have a carport or no garage at all. So it's expected that people park on the street, like you said.
But here's my thing in regards to your complaints about parking and having an HOA:
Everybody has their thing. Yours is street parking. A neighbor's thing is landscaping, another neighbor's is fencing...or mailboxes...or cleanliness of the siding...or trash cans...or gutters...or paint colors...or what you can have on your porch...or the type of railing you can have on your porch...the type of roof on your shed...the type of shed...or towels left at the pool...or dogs in the common area/lawns...etc., etc.
When there's an HOA involved, there's this mechanism that people feel the need to use in order to deal with their particular issue. So they join the board, or petition it, or whatever. They get passionate about it, and convince enough people to add another rule, or to start enforcing a current rule more forcefully. All of a sudden there are these notices going out about tomato plants, and how many feet behind the front facade they need to be, with an attached list of appropriate front yard shrubs (and a sample landscape plan attached), and how many square feet of lawn you must retain. The shape of the lawn. And, oh yeah, the pots on your porch can only be X inches high, unless you can get approval...And that gnome has to go, unless you belong to the Church of Gnome (and can prove it).
All these rules eventually fill this giant 3-ring binder.
Inspections are every 6 months. We are hiring a company to enforce parking rules. Fines are now enforcable for tomato plants and start at $25 for your first offense. The HOA Gulag can now hold up to 5 residents at a time for 30 days...
I live in a neighborhood with an HOA and honestly it is fine -- reasonable people enforcing reasonable rules that basically protect everyone's property values (ie no junked cars in the yard, no chainlink fences, no covering the lawn with concrete and painting it flourescent green, whatever). They also maintain a pool, tennis courts, playground, sports field and landscaping at entrances. It's a lot of effort by people who (as far as I know) don't get paid.
In ten years here Ive never seen the circumstances others in this thread have described -- but I believe the horror stories. That said, I ALSO believe the horror stories told about trash-strewn yards, dilapidated houses, etc in non-HOA neighborhoods, so there's always that.
Some of the things HOA's have rules against are in fact illegal throughout the state, such as tall grass and junk cars. Those rules are obviously not being enforced, but they do exist.
I, too, dislike HOA's. Our house in FL has one, although it is considered inactive. When we bought our land here, we were very careful to avoid any kind of HOA, or even zoning, for that matter. It's a matter of preference; there are downsides out here in the boonies, but I am free to do what I want (within reason).
The parking issue is prevalent in FL, too. The lots are so small that there is only room for two cars. Add one (or more) teenage drivers, and you have to park on the street. If my wife or I parked in the garage, then you would have to shuffle the cars all of the time, because we were all on slightly different schedules. It's just much easier to park on the street. In our area of FL, it's legal to park on the street, but illegal to park on the grass.
They pass some odd laws at times. One town in FL made it illegal to park a boat or RV in your driveway. It had to go in the garage or behind the house. With a typical lot line of six feet, the back yard is out of the question. What are all of the boat or RV owners supposed to do? Another city banned any vehicle over 17' long in the driveway. Someone found out that the mayor's luxury car was over 17' LOL!
If you want the 'protection' of an HOA, by all means, buy a house in one. It doesn't fit my lifestyle, so I want no part of one.
Oh, Art123, you had me laughing at your characterizations of HOAs! By the end of this summer we will be happily leaving our current home in what is assuredly the Mother of all HOAs in northern California.
But I beg to differ with you on one point. The vast majority of our HOA board members here on the left coast are flaming liberals, not conservatives....
In our HOA/subdivision, the "giant 3-ring binder" you mention is actually an entire complex maintained and perpetuated by a top-heavy staff of bureaucrats operating on an annual budget of over $3 million that grows every year. They are supported by legions of "selfless" volunteers, all of whom are focused on "their thing." Rules, regulations, guidelines, fines, committees, advisory boards, task forces, stewards... each "good idea" that starts with a dedicated volunteer eventually becomes a paid staff position.
Which goes to show you "nosy, control freaks with way too much time on their hands" come in all stripes....
Counting down with great anticipation to an HOA-free life within Greenville city limits -- and hoping the SUN comes back out by the time we get there in a month or two!
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