Handgun for serious bear country where I walk the dogs. (shotguns, pistol)

[ColoGuy]

Black bears are pretty timid as a rule....I'm in Colorado...no grizzlies yet. The problem is that I know my dogs would chase and harass a cub. You know the rest of the story. There are also a lot of packs of large coyotes.

I have really great cattle dogs and they need a *great* deal of exercise to be happy. Sold some land and wanting a good handgun to protect my dogs and I with daily hikes in the woods. Currently thinking of, maybe, a .243 chambered in a pistol? Being able to hunt deer with a pistol has long intrigued me.

Handguns in larger than .44Mag size sure are expensive. Guess I'll have to bite the bullet here.

Don't care too much about prestige. Looking for "bang for the buck." Kind of know rifles, pistols not so much.

Thanks in advance for help!

[Threerun]

I never worry about black bears or coyotes with my dogs. Not much of a risk IMO.
I'm more concerned about wolves and mountain lions, frankly.

However a .44mag would be sufficient, as would bear spray.

[Coldjensens]

I think you really need a rifle. Handguns are not much use against bears from what I understand. A semi automatic 12 gauge might be of use since you cannot miss, and if you manage to get five or six rounds out, there woudl not be much left of the bear even it it was not dead.

If you want to stick with a handgun, I have limited experience, but based on my limited experience I suggest:

1. Long barrel. You do not want to have to wait for them to close on you for decent accuracy. Short barreled handguns are easy to carry, but next to impossible to hit anything with, especially something that is moving.

2. Revolver. Automatics jam too often for my tastes. It is also easier to keep a revolver in a safe status and then render it live very quickly. I wold get at least one speed loader just in case you prove to be a bad shot under stress.

3. Powerful. You want some stopping power. Bears are tough, even head shots with a rifle do not always take them down. With a 9mm ammunition is cheaper for practicing, but you are more likely to make a bear madder than to stop it or scare it off. Get something that will at least give the bear a headache.

To me that means probably a .357 Magnum. I think you can get some weaker practice rounds to learn to use it. Then practice practice practice. It is surprisingly hard to hit anything with a handgun at any distance. Once you can reliably hit a target at a decent distance start working on moving targets.


If I were you and I was sure I wanted to use a gun for this purpose and a rifle woudl not do, then I woudl probably get a Springfield 1911 (9mm) and a 357 magnum revolver. Use the sprinfield for practice most of the time since the ammunition is so much cheaper. Then practice some with the .357 once you are proficient.

Or you could get some bear spray and a bell, but I have heard bears just see those as seasoning/condiments.

More realistically you should get something that you think looks cool and is really fun to shoot at the range. You are not ever going to use it on a bear anyway, might as well have fun. If you do get attacked by a bear (about as likely as waking up one morning and discovering you are not the president of the United States), you will probably miss and get eaten so it will not matter what kind of handgun you have, but it should be cool looking so whomever finds your body can say "Look what a cool looking gun."

BEst advice, get a trainer and learn to run faster than your dog.

[Czechsix]

Best bang for your buck?

10mm G20, run a hot load, Buffalo Bore works well, 180gr is pretty sporty. You want heavier, 220gr hardcast is decent also.

[jamies]

You only need a .22 short. Shoot your dog in the foot, don't worry if you are a bad shot, they have four, you are bound to hit one. Then throw the gun at the bear and run like h#ll.

I thought I wrote on this not long ago. I've had hundreds of black bear encounters. Not so much grizzly. When I was a kid in the Sierra mountains I carried a .22 pistol and later a .38. Because that was what I had, and I didn't fully comprehend caliber yet. LOL Luckily I never had to shoot a bear.

Yelling works 90% of the time. Spray 95%.

My brother took one hunting at about 100 feet with our .30-30. It went down with one shot. Black bear.

I've learned a bit now that I'm 60. Hiking in grizzly country I have a 5 1/2" Redhawk .44 with 340gr Buffalo Bore. But I usually only carry my Glock 19 or a 1911. If I lived in rural Alaska or was off the beaten path around Yellowstone it would be different. But last summer in Yellowstone I kept the hand cannon in my day pack and just carried my Glock. You will know it's me because of the Glock in the bear scat and the pretty .44 in my bag...

You will not go wrong with a Glock 20 - 10mm or even a .357 for blackies - but with any dangerous animal, go big or go home! If all you have is a .357 fine. It'll work... probably.

In Grizzly country you want the BIGGEST EFING GUN you can carry! A 12 ga with slugs, preferably 3" mag if you can find some. A 45-70 or .375h&h rifle works too. I'd prefer an M60 on full-auto... Problem is you can't carry a long gun in many places, socially or legally unless hunting.

After comparing ballistics I think a .454 with Buffalo Bore is about as good as it gets, if your bones will handle the recoil. The .500 doesn't seem much more than a .454 but more recoil.

After Todd Orr's attack last summer my defensive stance if alone would be bear spray in left hand, .44 or long gun in right. If bear hits spray and doesn't immediately stop and turn, drop spray and open fire. Todd got mauled because he relied on his bear spray, his gun was holstered through the first attack, and the second time the bear attacked it knocked his gun out of his hand.

You are going to get ONE shot with a wheelgun or non autoloading long gun before a running bear is on you if you deploy spray first. The bear will be 15-25 feet away. That one round needs enough power to immediately stop a charge and/or anchor the bear to allow time for follow up shot(s) if necessary.

A semi auto like a G20 you might get two or three shots in a couple of seconds - IF they are on target and you recover fast or they may be contact shots as a charge carries the bear onto you. But a .44mag is nearly twice the weight, moves a couple hundred fps faster and has nearly twice the foot lb energy.

With shotguns you need slugs. Buckshot may not penetrate enough. You need a bone breaking, shock producing slug. And you do need to aim. Load all slugs. No buck. No birdshot. Whether bear or home defense, you are not going to remember under stress what load is where. Home defense, load all buckshot.

[Czechsix]

I'd still go with the G20, over the .44 mag.

IAC, personal choice, we all have our reasons. There are some interesting conversions too, like the G21 in .460 Rowland, if you want to deal with that.

Anyway, none of them matter if you can't hit. Practice, practice, practice. Gets expensive with more exotic calibers, kinda nice if you can pop off relatively inexpensive .40 and then swap to 10mm, etc etc.

[6.7traveler]

I really like carrying bear spray and can be more effective than a gun in many bear encounters. You're a lot less likely to miss.

I've carried a 44 mag before in bear country. It was big and ridiculous and heavy. I never used it.

If I'm staying the night in bear country and weight/space permits, I'll bring my 12 gauge loaded with alternate rounds of hollow point slugs and buckshot.

The problem is if a bear really is going to attack you, you have about 2 seconds to unholster your gun, aim and hope for a head shot on a very fast moving charging bear.

Keeping the dogs on leash while in bear country is good practice so they dont come running back towards you with a grizzly hot on their heels.

[6.7traveler]

[quote=jamies;

With shotguns you need slugs. Buckshot may not penetrate enough. You need a bone breaking, shock producing slug. And you do need to aim. Load all slugs. No buck. No birdshot. Whether bear or home defense, you are not going to remember under stress what load is where. Home defense, load all buckshot.[/QUOTE]

I agree that a slug would be much better round, IF you don't miss. That's why I load every other round a slug, then with the biggest buckshot I can find. For a total of 8 rounds. The buckshot won't do as much damage, but you'll be less likely to completely miss.

If you're close enough to shoot a griz with a hand gun, you'll need some new underwear as well.

[Nonesuch]

Whatever caliber handgun you choose, take Czechsix's advice and load up with Buffalo Bore.

Originally Posted by Threerun

I never worry about black bears or coyotes with my dogs. Not much of a risk IMO. I'm more concerned about wolves and mountain lions, frankly.

We don't have mountain lions, and officially there are no wolves here, however our eastern coyotes usually DNA test at about 10% wolf DNA.

Coyote attacks do happen, both pack attacks on adult humans and (more common) people walking their dog(s) get involved when their dog is attacked. I've seen 2 coyotes following me and my dog; could have been more, but only 2 visible...

Originally Posted by jamies

Problem is you can't carry a long gun in many places, socially or legally unless hunting.
...
You are going to get ONE shot with a wheelgun or non autoloading long gun before a running bear is on you if you deploy spray first. The bear will be 15-25 feet away. That one round needs enough power to immediately stop a charge and/or anchor the bear to allow time for follow up shot(s) if necessary.

Here in New Hampshire, no such limitations on open carry, some of my friends carry an AR pistol or SBR with a folding stock (most of them are into .300 blackout). If you're actively out hunting (year round open season on coyotes), can't have more than 5 rounds loaded in a magazine (NH state law).

When I'm hiking in the summer, I carry a full-size handgun in a very visible holster, never had anybody even comment on it. Carrying a rifle, the only question asked is what I'm hunting.

[Czechsix]

Originally Posted by 6.7traveler

I really like carrying bear spray and can be more effective than a gun in many bear encounters. You're a lot less likely to miss.

I've carried a 44 mag before in bear country. It was big and ridiculous and heavy. I never used it.

If I'm staying the night in bear country and weight/space permits, I'll bring my 12 gauge loaded with alternate rounds of hollow point slugs and buckshot.

The problem is if a bear really is going to attack you, you have about 2 seconds to unholster your gun, aim and hope for a head shot on a very fast moving charging bear.

Keeping the dogs on leash while in bear country is good practice so they dont come running back towards you with a grizzly hot on their heels.

I've been told by much more experienced folks (luckily I haven't had to test what I've been trained to do....and hopefully I never will) that head shots on large bears will only **** them off (ok, exaggeration, but head shots aren't a sure thing). After having seen what a head shot does on large brownies, or grizz, I agree with them. The only place to start trying to nail a charging bear is the chest/shoulder girdle. You have to mechanically break them down, destroy the bone or joints. The skull...well, I've actually seen well aimed .300 winmag not penetrate a dead center shot on a grizzly skull. Bear went from "what's that" to "kill everything in sight, starting with those guys" in about 0.03 seconds.

They can move fast, lol. Oh, boy, can they ever.

Anyway, normal walkabout is G20. Actually bush walking, 12g slugs, or the .45-70. Friends with the same are a good idea too, that way at least one of you can walk out to get help while the other ones are trying to staple missing pieces of their bodies back on.