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No home owner is going to use NVGs if they're awakened in the middle of the night to the sound of someone breaking in. NVGs that are actually useable are thousands of dollars. Cheap ones are worthless. I used to wear NVGs. First I had to put on my helmet. Then I snapped the NVGs into place. Then I went into a little booth to set them up and adjust them. It's about a five to 10 minute process. So it's not as easy as throwing them on and they're ready to go. The other side effect of NVGs is that it distorts your spatial orientation. You're like to be way off target if you start putting rounds downrange.
Have you ever heard of hyperbole? I was using it to point out the error of mounting a flashlight to a gun.
Common 71/2 bird shot underperforms as a defense load. We don't even trust it against turkeys
Quote:
Originally Posted by MinivanDriver
Use bird shot. Doesn't destroy everything in the vicinity or the target.
Why would you limit yourself to a tiny pellet which might stop an intruder like 7½ birdshot when actually effective defensive loads such as #4 buck are available?
1: Why do you want a shotgun for home defense when your target would be less than 20 feet away, usually much less. At that range, you don't need to worry about what choke you have as it is not enough range to disperse the shot very much.
2: Why would you want to install a red laser to use at that distance. You are so close, it is just point and shoot if need be. A red laser is used for more distance shooting than shooting someone in a normal small room.
3: The odds of killing someone at home defense distances are much higher with a shotgun than with a pistol or even a rifle. How does your state treat killing someone in your home? Shoot someone close range with a shotgun, and in some states you are going to be up for murder, or if they don't die but are permanently seriously damaged such as can happen with a shot gun, you may be charged with attempted murder.
4: Due to the long barrel a shotgun is not the easiest gun to maneuver when moving around an average size home. It is also easier for someone to take away from you than a pistol.
I have a small 5 shot .22 pistol you can hide in your hand for a home defense gun. Small, but big enough to stop someone in their tracks, and if I have to shoot it can be a non lethal shot that will stop them, but not kill them. Yes I can hit them exactly where I want to, if I ever have to shoot someone.
I do understand guns, as I was raised on a large ranch. My paternal grandfather was born 1862 in Montana on a large ranch. He was a gunman in the Montana Cattle Wars. Fastest man with a gun, and most accurate I have ever met. He taught me to shoot. My grandmother was from Sweden and an army nurse at a Montana fort. She told him she would not marry him, unless he gave up the life of a hired gunman, and moved to California. He did, and they did. When I was 12, he bought me one carton of .22 CB shells (500 each carton) which are those short range shells used in a shooting gallery every week. They would not go over 100 yards or so. I was to shoot the birds that flocked into our cherry trees, and there would be no animals in the field across the ravine behind his house. That year wild canaries in huge flocks came after the cherries. After the first week, he taught me to shoot a .22 small light rifle (I was 6'2" full grown at 12) from the hip. I hip shot birds from the trees all summer. That was part of my training on using guns. I would hit 19 out of 20 I shot at, from the hip.
Because of my grandfather, I am partial to a pistol for up close work like home defense. He taught me it is too easy for someone you may catch in your home, to take a long gun away from you, and a pistol is best for that use.
Last time I shot a rifle, was right after getting out of the Navy in 1954. I had a bolt action .30/.30 that had a safety going bad. I had a buyer, that was a machinist who was going to machine a new safety and install it. I had half a dozen shells left, so my young brother in laws wanted to take it to the river bar behind their place, and shoot them. We went down and the younger brother in law would sent a dog into the holes along the river bank which were covered by trees. First one, a jack rabbet took off about 30 feet away. His older brother had a 12 gauge double barrel, and we were going to see who could shoot the rabbit. I just tipped the rifle up at the hip and shot the running rabbit. My brother in law was so angry saying it was not fair he turned all red faced.
Years later when he was a Lt. on the police force in town in charge of the gunner safety class taught at the high school, his best buddy my brother's daughter was taking the class. He said he had a flash back to me shooting the rabbit and says it was unfair as I had not aimed. He started laughing and the kids wanted to know what was so funny. He told them the story about that incident, and what he said. He suddenly realized what I had done by instinct, and now knew that he had witnessed the best shot he ever knew.
All I can say is, before you have a defense gun in the home, do a lot of practice so you are good with the gun, and have real control of the gun you are using. It is no place for an amateur with a gun to be using one for home safety. The amateur is a danger to himself as well as others. I have seen a lot of news stories over the years that a homeowner was killed by an intruder when the homeowner had a gun in his hands.
1: Why do you want a shotgun for home defense when your target would be less than 20 feet away, usually much less. At that range, you don't need to worry about what choke you have as it is not enough range to disperse the shot very much.
2: Why would you want to install a red laser to use at that distance. You are so close, it is just point and shoot if need be. A red laser is used for more distance shooting than shooting someone in a normal small room.
3: The odds of killing someone at home defense distances are much higher with a shotgun than with a pistol or even a rifle. How does your state treat killing someone in your home? Shoot someone close range with a shotgun, and in some states you are going to be up for murder, or if they don't die but are permanently seriously damaged such as can happen with a shot gun, you may be charged with attempted murder.
4: Due to the long barrel a shotgun is not the easiest gun to maneuver when moving around an average size home. It is also easier for someone to take away from you than a pistol.
I have a small 5 shot .22 pistol you can hide in your hand for a home defense gun. Small, but big enough to stop someone in their tracks, and if I have to shoot it can be a non lethal shot that will stop them, but not kill them. Yes I can hit them exactly where I want to, if I ever have to shoot someone.
I do understand guns, as I was raised on a large ranch. My paternal grandfather was born 1862 in Montana on a large ranch. He was a gunman in the Montana Cattle Wars. Fastest man with a gun, and most accurate I have ever met. He taught me to shoot. My grandmother was from Sweden and an army nurse at a Montana fort. She told him she would not marry him, unless he gave up the life of a hired gunman, and moved to California. He did, and they did. When I was 12, he bought me one carton of .22 CB shells (500 each carton) which are those short range shells used in a shooting gallery every week. They would not go over 100 yards or so. I was to shoot the birds that flocked into our cherry trees, and there would be no animals in the field across the ravine behind his house. That year wild canaries in huge flocks came after the cherries. After the first week, he taught me to shoot a .22 small light rifle (I was 6'2" full grown at 12) from the hip. I hip shot birds from the trees all summer. That was part of my training on using guns. I would hit 19 out of 20 I shot at, from the hip.
Because of my grandfather, I am partial to a pistol for up close work like home defense. He taught me it is too easy for someone you may catch in your home, to take a long gun away from you, and a pistol is best for that use.
Last time I shot a rifle, was right after getting out of the Navy in 1954. I had a bolt action .30/.30 that had a safety going bad. I had a buyer, that was a machinist who was going to machine a new safety and install it. I had half a dozen shells left, so my young brother in laws wanted to take it to the river bar behind their place, and shoot them. We went down and the younger brother in law would sent a dog into the holes along the river bank which were covered by trees. First one, a jack rabbet took off about 30 feet away. His older brother had a 12 gauge double barrel, and we were going to see who could shoot the rabbit. I just tipped the rifle up at the hip and shot the running rabbit. My brother in law was so angry saying it was not fair he turned all red faced.
Years later when he was a Lt. on the police force in town in charge of the gunner safety class taught at the high school, his best buddy my brother's daughter was taking the class. He said he had a flash back to me shooting the rabbit and says it was unfair as I had not aimed. He started laughing and the kids wanted to know what was so funny. He told them the story about that incident, and what he said. He suddenly realized what I had done by instinct, and now knew that he had witnessed the best shot he ever knew.
All I can say is, before you have a defense gun in the home, do a lot of practice so you are good with the gun, and have real control of the gun you are using. It is no place for an amateur with a gun to be using one for home safety. The amateur is a danger to himself as well as others. I have seen a lot of news stories over the years that a homeowner was killed by an intruder when the homeowner had a gun in his hands.
The advice is right. I don't know whether the story is true (second time you've written about it), but it's a good tale. I repped you for story and advice.
Yes the story is true. I look at guns so different than most people,due to where I raised and having a real old west grandfather teach me to shoot. He taught me to shoot as if he was training a gunfighter.
When I was in navy boot camp,we went out to the marine base one day to shoot the old Garand rifle. One clip standing, one clip kneeling, and one clip prone. We were to take our time and carefully sight and fire. I shot rapid fire standing. The gunny sergeant flipped out at me. Then the flager signaled all black (meaning all bulls eyes). He looked at me funny, and told me I qualified and I did not get to shoot the other two clips.
When someone wants a shotgun with a Laser sight for a home defense gun he first should take some lessons in fire arms.
A shotgun requires no less practice to be used effectively for home defense than does any other weapon
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldtrader
3: The odds of killing someone at home defense distances are much higher with a shotgun than with a pistol or even a rifle. How does your state treat killing someone in your home? Shoot someone close range with a shotgun, and in some states you are going to be up for murder, or if they don't die but are permanently seriously damaged such as can happen with a shot gun, you may be charged with attempted murder.
4: Due to the long barrel a shotgun is not the easiest gun to maneuver when moving around an average size home. It is also easier for someone to take away from you than a pistol.
I have a small 5 shot .22 pistol you can hide in your hand for a home defense gun. Small, but big enough to stop someone in their tracks, and if I have to shoot it can be a non lethal shot that will stop them, but not kill them. Yes I can hit them exactly where I want to, if I ever have to shoot someone.
Speaking of charges, in both criminal and civil court, in nearly every state, you and your assets are going to be more at risk if you intentionally try for "a non lethal shot that will stop them".
Personally, my point of view is the exact opposite of this -- once somebody has broken into your home, your job is to stop the threat before they can harm you or your family. This isn't accomplished by wounding the criminal via a tiny 5-shot .22 pistol.
As the defender, you have the home court advantage. Can you explain why you choose to handicap yourself by choosing a revolver firing the smallest caliber handgun bullet in current use, and the second smallest round capacity?
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldtrader
All I can say is, before you have a defense gun in the home, do a lot of practice so you are good with the gun, and have real control of the gun you are using. It is no place for an amateur with a gun to be using one for home safety. The amateur is a danger to himself as well as others. I have seen a lot of news stories over the years that a homeowner was killed by an intruder when the homeowner had a gun in his hands.
I haven't seen a single one of those stories in my state in this decade.
I agree that practice is essential -- practice with the exact weapon you will have at your side; better yet, find a training facility that can simulate tight quarters and low light. The only thing I wouldn't do in practice is shoot without hearing protection.
Installing laser on pistols, shotguns and rifles is s good idea. This way the perp can see you coming before you see him. Then he can see you can’t stop shaking therefore can’t aim accurately.
Unless you’re a well-trained member of SWAT or Special Forces, I’d say just practice more and keep unnecessary stuff off your guns.
#4 buck is the best for Home defense, while it still penetrate through 2 interior walls, it will not go thru exterior wall.
Thanks HB2HSV,
This is a very good point with regarding penetrating to the outside of home and causing outside damage or hurt neighbor or possible death.
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Common 71/2 bird shot underperforms as a defense load. We don't even trust it against turkeys
I don't know whether the story is true (second time you've written about it), but it's a good tale. I repped you for story and advice. 
A shotgun requires no less practice to be used effectively for home defense than does any other weapon
