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Honest advice about Hawaii, warm weather year round, general noise level, frog noise, mold issues, medical care, hospitals with poor sanitation, drive by shootings, car thefts
View Poll Results: Where would you move as a single mom with 3 kids & on a budget ?
Aloha to all...
I have a MAJOR dilemna, and need anyone who can offer any advice, assistance. I am under a HUGE amount of stress and know I need to come to an answer or I will end up having a coronary...so here is my problem...
I am wanting to move to a tropical island with my 3 kids (ages 6, 11, 13). I want to live in 'paradise' where life is slower, more laid back, less stress, nature, want warm weather year round, sunshine, being on the ocean/beach, I want to be around friendly people.. I have visited Kauai about 4 times over the past 10 years, and Oahu. I live on the mainland now (east coast). I was looking at real estate sites, and the cost of land/homes is outrageous. The only island that seemed to have cheaper land is the Big Island (I checked Kauai, Oahu, Maui, Lanai, Molokai). Now what I have found is that the 1+ acre lots are on the east coast of the Big Island, in Puna and Kau I recall. Most of the lots look like they are covered in lava. That doesn't sound too appealing to me. I don't want a yard full of black lava, I want 'rainforest' palm trees, fruit trees, etc.. Not sure how rainy it is there ? Does it rain daily ? Is it mostly cloudy or sunny ? I would probably have to put up a modular home (maybe something like those multi-facetted homes I saw)...
When I think 'tropical' I want white sandy beaches, palm trees, sunny weather etc. I didn't see ANY palm trees on these real estate sites (lots) looked like your ordinary shrubs/trees (not tropical).
Anyways, after reading some posts on this city-data site I am REALLY concerned about some issues I have been reading and want to know if Hawaii is something I should still consider or forget - I want to know how prevalent some of these problems truly are (or does the majority of the population there in Hawaii, not have any issues with these things, and can avoid seeing or experiencing them).....
This is a compilation of various posts and I am putting them all out there for comments...(in NO particular order)..
High Prices, Bugs, Rainy, moldy, Frog noise at the 100 decibel level, general noise, food crisis, bad roads, no utilities, catchment water, dogs, hospitals with poor sanitation and poor medical care, major drug problem (I read 1/3 of the island is on Meth), high teen pregnancy, people stealing breaking into homes and stealing cars, drive by shootings, and kids unfriendly to the 'new haole kids' they come in contact with - giving them stink eye or just making them feel like outcasts, what if my kids wouldn't want to speak pidgin - is that going to be a problem ?....
After reading these problems, makes me seriously reconsider this whole idea....it seems like a lot of things are troubling me on this list - especially the drug issue, the crime and wondering if my kids would be accepted or be shunned (which would crush me) I couldn't put them in an environment where they will be fighting to have friends.
Are any of the islands less prone to these issues ? What towns ? Any advice you could offer me would be GREATLY appreciated...Mahalo
If I would you I would stay on mainland. You will have a LOT MORE stress living in paradise, working 24/7 just to feed you kids and pay for appartment. East Coast not that bad. It's a lot easier to live on east coast on budget with kids.
I am wanting to move to a tropical island with my 3 kids (ages 6, 11, 13). I want to live in 'paradise' where life is slower, more laid back, less stress, nature, want warm weather year round, sunshine, being on the ocean/beach, I want to be around friendly people.
What you are looking for does not exist at the price you can afford - at least in Hawaii. Puerto Rico? Guam? Mexico? I dunno, but it isn't affordable here. This illusion of "paradise" is promoted by the Hawaii Visitors Bureau and they have spent millions of dollars on marketing to get people to believe this. While on vacation "paradise" might even be true if you are willing to pay the big bucks and stay at the tourist meccas. IT IS NOT TRUE IF YOU LIVE HERE unless you have enough money to afford a secluded villa on the beach somewhere. Then it might be "paradise" but with that much money pretty much anywhere could be made into "paradise" if you wanted. If you have to work for a living this is not "paradise" since you will be doing such a scramble to make ends meet that you won't have the stress free, laid back, slower life. You'll still get the warm weather and the palm trees, though. How about a smaller rural town somewhere in East Texas? Small towns in southern Missouri don't get as much brutal cold, either. You could save up your money and vacation here or Mexico or the Caribbean to get your tropical paradise yayas out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by keikekai
I have visited Kauai about 4 times over the past 10 years, and Oahu. I live on the mainland now (east coast). I was looking at real estate sites, and the cost of land/homes is outrageous. The only island that seemed to have cheaper land is the Big Island (I checked Kauai, Oahu, Maui, Lanai, Molokai). Now what I have found is that the 1+ acre lots are on the east coast of the Big Island, in Puna and Kau I recall. Most of the lots look like they are covered in lava. That doesn't sound too appealing to me. I don't want a yard full of black lava, I want 'rainforest' palm trees, fruit trees, etc.. Not sure how rainy it is there ? Does it rain daily ? Is it mostly cloudy or sunny ? I would probably have to put up a modular home (maybe something like those multi-facetted homes I saw)...
When I think 'tropical' I want white sandy beaches, palm trees, sunny weather etc. I didn't see ANY palm trees on these real estate sites (lots) looked like your ordinary shrubs/trees (not tropical).
Don't even think about buying a lot in a place you've never seen. Vacationing on Oahu and Kauai is not living on the Big Island. Especially don't buy a lot sight unseen in lava areas. One lot may be fine and the lot directly next door may have a lava tube in the middle of it. Most of these lots were recently covered by lava and there is a live volcano right there spewing out more lava. Did you check the lava zone of the lots? Some sub-divisions were covered by lava less than twenty years ago and Pele (the volcano goddess) can cover them again any time she feels like it. Currently the big problem is with vog or volcanic fog. It is hard to breathe and is killing the plants.
Quote:
Originally Posted by keikekai
Anyways, after reading some posts on this city-data site I am REALLY concerned about some issues I have been reading and want to know if Hawaii is something I should still consider or forget - I want to know how prevalent some of these problems truly are (or does the majority of the population there in Hawaii, not have any issues with these things, and can avoid seeing or experiencing them).....
High Prices, - yes. We are a remote group of islands that doesn't produce much so everything gets shipped in and it is very expensive.
Bugs, - yes. We have no winter to kill them off. Huge cockaroaches and centipedes as well as mosquitoes. We do have geckos (house lizards) to help us battle the bugs. There are four different types of fruit flies which we battle in our gardens.
Rainy, moldy, - depends where on the island you are. Some areas such as Hilo have an average rainfall of over 200 inches (sixteen feet) of rainfall a year. Some areas such as Ka'u and Kawaihae have an average of less than 20 inches a year.
Frog noise at the 100 decibel level, - yes in some areas which are those that are in the wetter areas and the County has given up all coqui frog eradication efforts since they ran out of money. Most of the lots you mentioned above would have noisy frogs.
general noise, - depends on your area. The more people and the closer to the roads, the noisier it is.
food crisis, - if you want to eat imported mainland food, then yes it is expensive. If you garden, fish, hunt and trade with your neighbors it can be less expensive to eat.
bad roads, - In many areas it is a lack of roads, which is the issue more so than their condition. We have only one road which circles the island. In some areas if there is a wreck or a landslide or rocks fall onto the road or a brushfire, the "detour" can be over 150 miles long.
no utilities, - this is a rural island. No cities, few towns and not enough of a population base to pay for the infrastructure nor do we want it in many areas so there isn't a big demand for it. No sewer, no mail service, no trash pickup, no water service, most areas do have phone lines and cell phones work in many areas. Some don't get high speed internet, some areas don't get electric service.
catchment water, - some people are starting to drill wells, but that is very expensive.
dogs, - wild pigs should also be here if you are worried about dogs.
hospitals with poor sanitation and poor medical care, - here the problem again is lack of hospitals, not the condition of them. The Hilo Hospital has been downgraded to a "medical facility", I think. For any serious condition most folks are flown to Oahu.
major drug problem (I read 1/3 of the island is on Meth), - I don't know enough to know if that number is correct or not. Crime is up since they cracked down on marijuana. That stuff folks could grow for free as well as a cash crop so they weren't out stealing stuff to provide for their habit. Making that legal and taxing the heck out of it would put a lot of money into the public coffers, I would think.
high teen pregnancy, - do you mean out of wedlock type of teen pregnancy? It doesn't have the same stigma on it as it does on the mainland so it is much more common here. It does usually keep the girl in a much lower level of income since she is then raising a kid instead of herself.
people stealing breaking into homes and stealing cars, - this is more common in some areas than others. Construction sites were targeted more commonly than homes but construction is down so homes are getting hit more frequently. More often things are taken from cars - especially tourist cars - than the cars themselves unless the car has popular parts on it. Then the car gets stolen and stripped for parts.
drive by shootings, - this isn't common here unless the folks know the person they are shooting at.
and kids unfriendly to the 'new haole kids' they come in contact with - giving them stink eye or just making them feel like outcasts, - yes that will happen.
what if my kids wouldn't want to speak pidgin - is that going to be a problem ?.... - actually, this is a no win situation for them, if they try to speak pidgin they will be laughed at and since they can't speak pidgin they can't belong.
Quote:
Originally Posted by keikekai
After reading these problems, makes me seriously reconsider this whole idea....it seems like a lot of things are troubling me on this list - especially the drug issue, the crime and wondering if my kids would be accepted or be shunned (which would crush me) I couldn't put them in an environment where they will be fighting to have friends.
Are any of the islands less prone to these issues ? What towns ? Any advice you could offer me would be GREATLY appreciated...Mahalo
I do notice the quality of schooling isn't on your list. That would be a huge issue if your kids are used to mainland quality schools.
Basically, "paradise" does not exist here unless you are a tourist. Local folks can live closer to the idea of "paradise" (although they just accept it as "normal" and don't get all misty eyed about the whole concept) since they have wide ranging support groups of family and friends. You can't live here very well on your own, you have to be part of a group to live here well.
Don't move to any Pacific island based only on a postcard, the Travel Channel, or some dream about a place.
Get on a plane and visit first!
When you visit, take off the rose-colored glasses and check the place out as if you are LIVING there, not as some Tourist. It is easy to fool yourself by only looking at all the positive stuff you want to see and never look at the reality of living in a place as a resident and not a visitor.
I will honor your request for HONEST answers, and be blunt with you.
The problem isn't the answers to the questions you are asking, it that you are asking them all in the first place.
If you are under stress from just reading about other people's problems you listed here, I can't imagine you are prepared to deal with them in real life. I would bet that where ever you live you could list an equally long list of problems that people complain about there. Are they all your problems too? Do you feel as strongly about each one as the person complaining? Maybe, and if so then you are too easily sucked into someone else's unhappiness or discontent. If not, then you might have the personal fortitude to make do in any circumstance.
People who make an expensive and hard-to-reverse change like moving to Hawaii should seriously evaluate how much they want to do so, and whether it is based on reality or a dream. Or maybe it's based in hoping that where they go will be different from where they are.
To answer your questions with reality -
You will not be able to afford a quiet place on a white sandy beach with palm trees and beautiful tropical vegetation. You and your kids will not be sitting around all day on lounge chairs, frolicking in the ocean, eating pineapple, watching the sunset.
You will likely rent a small place and go to the beach on weekends and holidays. You days will be spent working, your kids will be in school, and in the evenings you will clean your house and do laundry and go grocery shopping. The cost of living here is higher, so you might work more hours than you do where you are now. Your kids will experience a BIG change and will go through a lot of adjustment. How they are received will be less important than how they are equipped to deal with it.
If you want palm trees and fruit trees and a bounty of fresh food, you will need to spend time gardening and doing yardwork. If you want to be surrounded by friendly people you will need to be open and sharing and a good neighbor.
The dream you outline is for people who have saved or inherited a lot of money and can afford to retire here in a multi-million dollar property.
That said, yes life here is slower and more laid back. When you are done with work you will drive home with beauty all around you. When you go outside to take out the rubbish you will be in warm weather and see palm trees somewhere nearby, swaying in the wind. When you do your grocery shopping, the clerks at the store will eventually recognize you and will smile and chat with you. When you go to the beach it will be free and you will relax in the warm sun and gorgeous ocean.
Stressed out people? I find people here are less stressed out, but that's because I avoid people who are stressed and complain all the time. I LOVE living here. I make it work, so it works for me.
I think you should go look at the forum for the place where you live now. Read what people are saying about your state. If you did not live there, would it sound like somewhere you want to be? Do the posts for your state talk about crime, traffic, drugs, schools, the high cost of living? Probably so.
Now, take a deep look at your own outlook. Go back and read the posts here again. Do you see the ones from those of us who love it here, and are helping other people who are thinking about moving? Do you see the posts about how we who live here love the life, the people, the weather? If you can't register the positive along with the negative, then you are not prepared to make any move.
One last point. You have kids, you obviously love them, and you make that work. If you read about all the troubles with having children and being a parent... let's face it, it's expensive, hard, takes your time, makes you sacrifice, can be downright upsetting. But is it worth it? Would you abandon your children by the side of the road? No, of course not, you make it work. Same thing for where you want to live. You make it work if you want it and love it enough.
You had visited the islands of Kauai & Oahu 4 times in the past 10 years .
Big Island is different but very beautiful , especially compared to Oahu .
Among the poll options , I would not pick move overseas to Oceania . Tahiti , maybe !
I have not been to Oceania , but had been to Tahiti & Moorea .
Hi, thanks for taking the time for the detailed responses you have provided me. Just to make a few comments -
Hotcatz, LOVED your thorough analysis, and found your answers very informative and honest - thank you for going over things point by point.
To CalicoSalsa - wanted to also thank you - but wanted you to point out a few things you misunderstood.
You said, "The problem isn't the answers to the questions you are asking, it that you are asking them all in the first place.
NO, I HAVE TO DISAGREE HERE - THERE IS NO PROBLEM WITH PEOPLE ASKING QUESTIONS, 'IN THE FIRST PLACE' YOU WOULD BE STUPID NOT TO ASK QUESTIONS ! THERE IS NO PROBLEM TO MAKING INQUIRIES - THAT'S WHAT THIS WHOLE SITE IS ABOUT - ASKING AND ANSWERING PEOPLE'S REPLIES IN RESPONSE TO VARIOUS PLACES ONE CAN MOVE, TRAVEL TO, ETC.
If you are under stress from just reading about other people's problems you listed here, I can't imagine you are prepared to deal with them in real life.
WRONG AGAIN HERE !!!! I AM NOT UNDER STRESS BECAUSE OF PEOPLE'S GRIEVANCES ON THE HAWAII FORUM - ITS THAT I AM UNDER STRESS TO MOVE, GET MY HOUSE PACKED AND FIND THE RIGHT PLACE TO MOVE WITH MY KIDS - IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WHAT I READ ON THIS SITE - UPSETTING, YES..BUT NOT MY SOURCE OF STRESS....
I would bet that where ever you live you could list an equally long list of problems that people complain about there. WHY DO YOU MAKE ASSUMPTIONS ABOUT SOMETHING LIKE THIS ? YOU DO NOT KNOW ME, I AM MAKING INQUIRIES ABOUT THINGS I HAVE READ THAT ARE OF CONCERN - AND ANYONE WITH 1/2 A BRAIN WOULD REALIZE THAT, YES ITS THE SMART THING TO DO, TO INQUIRE OF THOSE THAT LIVE THERE IF THESE ISSUES ARE TRUE ISSUES AND PROBLEMS OR ARE NON-ISSUES. THEN A PERSON CAN WEIGH THE DECISION MORE CLEARLY IN THEIR MIND, IF IT IS SOMEPLACE THEY SHOULD EVEN CONSIDER....
Are they all your problems too? Do you feel as strongly about each one as the person complaining? Maybe, and if so then you are too easily sucked into someone else's unhappiness or discontent. If not, then you might have the personal fortitude to make do in any circumstance.
IT IS NOT JUST ABOUT 'MAKING DO' IN ANY CIRCUMSTANCE HERE. SURE, I CAN MAKE DO IN ANY CIRCUMSTANCE - ITS A MATTER OF 'DO I WANT TO BOTHER' WITH A SET OF CIRCUMSTANCES THAT ARE DEAL BREAKERS IN MY MIND. JUST LIKE IN ANY MAJOR DECISION YOU NEED TO WEIGH THE PROS/CONS OF ANY GIVEN SITUATION AND MAKE LOGICAL AND SOUND CHOICES BASED UPON THOSE FACTS. THAT IS WHAT I AM DOING, GATHERING FACTS (BOTH POSITIVE AND NEGATIVE) AND MAKING CHOICES. YOU SEEM TO THINK THAT I DO NOT HAVE THE 'POSITVE' FACTS ABOUT HAWAII - THAT IS WHERE YOU ARE VERY WRONG - I WOULD NOT HAVE EVEN CONSIDERED HAWAII IF I THOUGHT IT WAS RUBBISH - I LOVED HAWAII EACH TIME I WAS THERE, AND DREAMED TO LIVE THERE ONEDAY. I SAW THE NATURAL BEAUTY, ETC. SO NOW I CANNOT WEAR BLINDERS (LIKE YOU MIGHT) TO THE FACT THAT YES, THERE ARE NEGATIVE'S THAT COME ALONG WITH THOSE POSITIVES. ARE THE NEGATIVES 'DEAL BREAKERS' OR NOT IS THE QUESTION. IF I WAS SINGLE WITH NO CHILDREN, THIS WOULD BE A NON ISSUE - ALL OF THE NEGATIVES, BECAUSE I HAVE LIVED AROUND THE ENTIRE GLOBE IN PRETTY DIRE CIRCUMSTANCES (OFTEN BY CHOICE) AND CAN 'HANDLE' ANYTHING THAT COMES MY WAY....ITS AN ENTIRELY DIFFERENT STORY WHEN YOU HAVE CHILDREN - I HAVE 3 CHILDREN WHO RELY ON ME TO MAKE CHOICES THAT WILL BENEFIT THEM AS WELL....DO I WANT MY KIDS TO BE SWARMED WITH DRUGGIES EVERYWHERE THEY TURN (AS I HEAR 1/3 OF THE PEOPLE ARE ON METH)? NO !! DO I WANT TO DEAL WITH POOR SANITATION IN HOSPITALS/POOR HEALTHCARE, FROGS THAT KEEP ME UP ALL NIGHT, LIVING ON TOP OF A LAVA TUBE, HAVING MY KIDS BE TEASED OR NOT ACCEPTED BECAUSE THEY ARE A MINORITY, LOW MORALS WITH THE HIGH TEEN PREGNANCY RATE, DRIVE BY SHOOTINGS, THEFT, VOG, NO UTILITIES, ETC. THESE ARE ALL ISSUES ONE HAS TO DECIDE IF THEY WANT TO LIVE WITH OR NOT. TO BE ILL INFORMED OR COMPLETELY UNINFORMED WOULD BE IRRESPONSIBLE ON MY PART AS A PARENT.
I think you should go look at the forum for the place where you live now. Read what people are saying about your state.
YES, THEY ALL WANT TO LEAVE THIS AWFUL PLACE I AM IN - AND GO ANYWHERE, AS ANYWHERE WOULD BE BETTER THAN THIS TOWN I AM IN.
If you did not live there, would it sound like somewhere you want to be? HELL NO, NEVER. I NEVER WOULD LIVE HERE, MOVED HERE TO BE CLOSER TO FAMILY MEMBERS, BUT THIS IS NOT A GOOD ENOUGH REASON TO STAY WHEN YOU CAN'T STAND THE SURROUNDINGS....
Do the posts for your state talk about crime, traffic, drugs, schools, the high cost of living? Probably so.
I AM NOT SAYING MY TOWN IS PERFECT - IF IT WAS WOULD I BE LOOKING TO MOVE ELSEWHERE ? NO. NO PLACE IS PERFECT, EVERY PLACE HAS THEIR PROS/CONS - BUT THAT IS WHY SOME PEOPLE LOVE TO MOVE TO LAS VEGAS AND OTHERS HATE IT - EVERYONE HAS THEIR OWN PERSONAL TASTE, OPINIONS OF AN AREA.
Now, take a deep look at your own outlook. Go back and read the posts here again. Do you see the ones from those of us who love it here, and are helping other people who are thinking about moving? Do you see the posts about how we who live here love the life, the people, the weather? If you can't register the positive along with the negative, then you are not prepared to make any move.
HERE YOU ARE BEING RIDICULOUS AGAIN - OF COURSE I KNOW OF HAWAII'S POSITIVE POINTS - THOSE ARE ALREADY IN MY MIND - I AM SEEKING THE CONS AS IT WOULD BE STUPID TO BE SEEING THINGS THROUGH 'ROSE COLORED GLASSES' LIKE MANY WHO PROBABLY MOVE THERE AND MOVE OFF ISLAND AGAIN AFTER A FEW YEARS - BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T KNOW ABOUT MANY OF THE PROBLEMS THAT COME ALONG WITH LIVING IN 'PARADISE.' I AM ALLOWED TO ASK QUESTIONS FREELY, WITHOUT BEING QUESTIONED AS TO MY INTENT - DON'T YOU THINK? I WOULD HAVE TO DISAGREE WITH YOU AND KNOW THAT MANY OF THE PUBLIC OUT THERE ALSO HAVE THE SAME QUESTIONS AS I DO - AND WILL FIND THIS POST ENLIGHTENING, SO THEY TOO CAN MAKE INFORMED RESPONSIBLE CHOICES.
One last point. You have kids, you obviously love them, and you make that work. If you read about all the troubles with having children and being a parent... let's face it, it's expensive, hard, takes your time, makes you sacrifice, can be downright upsetting. But is it worth it? Would you abandon your children by the side of the road? No, of course not, you make it work. Same thing for where you want to live. You make it work if you want it and love it enough.
Last edited by 7th generation; 09-12-2008 at 12:28 PM..
Reason: removed derrogatory comment
Aloha to all...
I have a MAJOR dilemna, and need anyone who can offer any advice, assistance. I am under a HUGE amount of stress and know I need to come to an answer or I will end up having a coronary...so here is my problem...
One can not - run away - from their problems. You have problems there you will have the same problems here plus more.
Gosh, at first all I can say is "wow". No need to yell with all caps, nor to call anyone assinine.
I was trying to be of help by giving you a different perspective. Let me try to be a bit more clear.
Questions are good. That is why I, and others are here helping to answer your questions, because we believe in them.
My point, perhaps not well made, was that you listed a long series of things you had read here that were of concern to you. I was trying to say that those types of lists exist everywhere. Anyone could make a list of their own about where ever they live, or anywhere they hear about. BUT there are also long lists of things that are good. Good and bad exists everywhere, and sometimes it is where people focus, not what really exists, that can be the barrier.
I meant to show that by reading the good that is also highlighted on this site, you would find some comfort that all that negativity you listed couldn't all be true. Or maybe it is true in some measure, but not enough to paint a broad awful picture.
My questions and replies to you were meant to be thought provoking, not anger provoking.
I'll just say, if it were so very bad, many of us would not be living here. Nor would there be those of us who are posting here to answer questions such as your.
I wish you well with your decision, and hope that you find the answers you need.
Calico, thank you for your initial response to keikekai, I enjoyed reading it and appreciate the time and thought it must have taken for you to write it. It can be disappointing to put much effort into a response and have it received poorly. It wasn't wasted though, many of us forum lurkers appreciate these things.
I enjoyed your post also hotzcatz; thanks
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