Big Island Move-vog, col, off-grid (Hilo, Kailua: extended stay, 2013, rental homes)

[dhailey76]

I am looking to come to the Big Island sometime this year to search out property. I am hoping to find cheap land or even land with a dwelling. It would only be myself and my husband. We are very frugal and would like to continue to live as modestly as possible, especially if it means we can live in Hawaii. I have been researching for years. I have visited Oahu twice and Maui once. I have chosen to visit BI because of the seemingly cheaper COL, off-grid living and the country life style I keep reading about. I have sooo many questions.

I already hang dry alot of my clothes to save on energy costs, have started a small garden to save on food, do not buy processed foods. I recycle recycle recycle, use my own bags at the store ( love the new laws passed there about no plastic bags!!) Would love to learn how to be more sustainable. My husband and I want to have a small place with enough property to grow a garden and perhaps have a few chickens and a goat. We love to help our neighbors and the sense of community.

If we buy a lot with no dwelling, what will we have to consider when and if we build a very modest home say within the next 8 years? Permits, sewage, water catchment, solar, etc... I read it costs around $1000 per acre to clear a lot, if needed. I am not for removing trees unless they are right in the way.
If we are in need of solar system set up what is the cost? When I say modest home I mean, I live in a 3 bedroom doublewide 1300 sq ft and we barely go in the back bedrooms so i could deal with 600 sq ft.

I have concerns about the VOG.
I have looked at South Kona area, Puna and recently Hilo. I am a social worker, hopefully by thetime we move I will have my graduate degree and be licensed. I currently work at a homeless shelter and hope tio continue this kind of work. I do not care about the pay as long as I can pay my baisc bills. My husband has his CDL A license and currently works for a company drilling soil core samples, wells and treating the land with chemicals if needed.
Can anyone give me some advice what kind of employment can be found for him on BI? How excepted I may be as a haole in the social service field. How bad the VOG is. What kind of start up expenses are related with going off-grid and mantaining it. Where to stay when I come for a month to explore Kona, Puna,Hilo areas. And any other kind and honest advice about expenses.

Mahalo

[OpenD]

Aloha

I suggest you use the Search function to really dig into the archives on the Big Island forum, where all your general questions have been asked and answered before. Once you have done your basic homework that way you'll be better prepared to ask more focused questions. And I also suggest you send a message to the moderator, 7thGeneration and ask for this thread to be moved to the Big Island forum.

But to give you a few things to start chewing on (from those previous answers)... hanging your wash on the line won't get it dry in Hilo or Puna... subjectively, vog seems to be a problem about 20% of the time, while 80% of the time it blows south instead... both you and your husband will probably have difficulties finding employment... don't use the word "haole"... use VRBO to locate a vacation rental in Hilo for a month. Or see if you can negotiate an extended stay rate from Uncle Billy's Hotel in Hilo, the cheapest conventional accommodations in the area.

Good luck!

[CyberCity]

Originally Posted by dhailey76

I am a social worker, hopefully by thetime we move I will have my graduate degree and be licensed. I currently work at a homeless shelter and hope tio continue this kind of work. I do not care about the pay as long as I can pay my baisc bills. My husband has his CDL A license and currently works for a company drilling soil core samples, wells and treating the land with chemicals if needed.
Can anyone give me some advice what kind of employment can be found for him on BI? How excepted I may be as a haole in the social service field.

After doing general research using the search function, concentrating on employment would be my next step. It sounds like you will be counting on two incomes, and so employment opportunities would be a priority in choosing a location. After you have employment possibilities narrowed down, you can then see what areas are within a driving distance that you are willing to consider (think "time" instead of "miles").

Then you can start narrowing down the potential places:
It is too rainy or too dry?
It the vog too bad to easily grow healthy crops?
Is there "dirt"?
Does the county zoning allow chickens and goats?
Is the a HOA, with rules about chickens and goats?
How long (time) of a drive is it (miles can be misleading)?

Originally Posted by dhailey76

If we buy a lot with no dwelling, what will we have to consider when and if we build a very modest home say within the next 8 years? Permits, sewage, water catchment, solar, etc... I read it costs around $1000 per acre to clear a lot, if needed.

I think there are new rules about how long a building permit can be open. Much can change in the course of 8 years. You might need to narrow down your timeline in order to do research. Also, if you grade and grub in year one, you'll find that in many rainy areas it is completely overgrown again within a few years and you'll be paying to grub all over again. Things like that can make a dent in the budget.

Good luck.

[OpenD]

Originally Posted by CyberCity

Does the county zoning allow chickens and goats?

That's easy. Yes. Even in Hilo.

It's the HOAs that can have a problem with it.

I think there are new rules about how long a building permit can be open.

3 years. Then you have to pull a new permit, based on whatever the rules and regulations are then.

Much can change in the course of 8 years.

Ding * Ding * Ding* !!! Anything more than a vague, general plan for 8 years from now would probably be a waste of time. The County, under a State Mandate, recently updated the Building Code from 1995 standards to the 2006 code and it changed a LOT. EPA mandates have changed cesspool and septic standards. Solar water heaters are now mandatory... just to name a few of the recent changes.

[CyberCity]

Originally Posted by OpenD

Anything more than a vague, general plan for 8 years from now would probably be a waste of time.

Ding* Ding* Da-Daing*

[hotzcatz]

Aloha Hailey & welcome to the forum,

About the only "cheap" land in Hawaii is in Puna on this island. It is cheap because it doesn't usually have much if any soil on it and it is in an area which is considered to be in a lava hazard zone. Which is most of Puna and occasionally Hilo. Lava almost ran down as far as Hilo in the eighties, but usually Hilo isn't considered to actually be in a very hazardous lava zone.

Depending on how much you have to spend, you might be able to buy land with a dwelling already on it at a reasonable rate. Prices are really down at the moment, but there are signs that the prices aren't going to stay down for much longer. Oahu land prices started going up last year, Kailua-Kona area on this island late last year and it should work it's way to Hilo and then Puna pretty soon.

If you have agriculturally zoned land (note: that doesn't necessarily mean it is good for farming, it might be nothing but leaf litter over lava and not able to have a hole dug into it without a jackhammer), but anyway, if you are on agriculturally zoned land and doing a bit of agriculture of some sort, your property taxes will be very low. If the land is already paid for and you don't bring over a lot of school debt, credit card debt, etc., then you'd probably be able to just about survive on part time work. Possibly even farming, although that would be a big challenge. The key would be keeping your overhead down to the bare minimum.

Very rough building costs:
1K - 1.5K clear a driveway and housepad
1K gravel & spreading for driveway/ housepad (note: if building on concrete slab, then don't put cinders where house will go)
5K septic system
1K septic system permit
3K water catchment tank & pump

So, that's roughly the groundwork. Figure about 10K plus or minus.

Solar electric will be a minimum of about 8K for a small system. That was how much the small system was which we had been using for the past decade. It ran the old house but we always had to be very careful of power usage and we had a backup generator and a battery bank to maintain. We just put in a 22K system on the house here and it totally replaced what we've been using from Helco. That's 17 solar panels of 250 watts each and each panel has a micro-inverter on it making 110 volts at the panel. The Helco bill is now $20 per month and no back up generator or battery system necessary. Of course, if the grid goes down, so do we even though we are solar powered. There are also tax credits so perhaps as much as two thirds of the installation cost will be recouped at tax time although the tax credits are changing this year.

So, figure solar electric between 8K to 24K and you will either be really careful about electric use or just run like a regular house, depending on which end of the scale you're at.

For building the house, (roughly 800 to 1,200 square feet) figure about 30K to 50K for the structural parts, add in another 5K for electrical work although that doesn't include the light fixtures themselves. Add in another 2K for plumbing inside the house, you'll probably have to provide the fixtures. There is now a recycle store in Hilo where you can get recycled house windows, doors & fixtures pretty inexpensively. As well as on Craig's List. These numbers are for if you are building the house as "owner builders". You have to have the electrical and plumbing done by licensed electricians and plumbers, but you can build the rest of it yourself if you want. If you go the owner builder route, it can't be sold for a year after the completion date. Having it built by a contractor will at least double the numbers. All these numbers are very rough ballpark numbers, they could change for about a zillion different reasons so don't take them too much to heart.

I dunno about the employment opportunities but it is doubtful you'd be able to find employment from the mainland for either of those types of employment. A CDL A might be useful, especially if he had a passenger endorsement for driving tour buses. There is one well drilling outfit on the island that I know of, there may be two. I dunno hardly anyone who drills soil samples although some of the ginger and sweet potato farmers have the soil treated, I think. Still, starting out debt free and paying cash for the house & lot may make it a workable plan since you'd not need a lot to live on that way.

You could try AirBnB's website for a place to stay.

A hui hou!

[hotzcatz]

Originally Posted by OpenD

<snip>... don't use the word "haole"... <snip>

Why not use "haole"? Would "mainlander" be better do you think? It's not like folks aren't going to notice they stay haole no matter what word is used.

[HiloDiver]

My recommendation is that you find an inexpensive rental for at least the first six months. Even the cheapest plan for purchase is a huge chunk of money you will find it difficult to recoup if it doesn't work out for you. It is not difficult to find inexpensive rental homes if you aren't too fussy about something super nice.

[Ryan.]

Regarding bulldozing costs, 2013 estimates in East Hawaii are $6,500+ an acre. Last year I was paying $6,000.

[hotzcatz]

Shootz, we sold a bulldozer for less than that! Buy a used dozer or backhoe, play around with it for a month or so and then sell it for what you paid for it. More fun for your dollar that way!