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Robin, you are the voice of reason on this thread. I was appalled that golf gal would attack someone who says their premiums went up, and not say a thing to the person bragging about getting their subsidized insurance. My husband and I have close to $2000 extra a year that we will be paying now because of the Obama unaffordable healthcare. The school district I worked for stated the higher premiums were because of the new Obamacare. This is a nightmare for the middle class, especially those who don't qualify for government welfare. The bottom line is the uninsured will be insured, and the insured are getting screwed. I am holding my breath for my "Cadillac insurance" to skyrocket even more next sign up period. Oh, and I just love how Obama admits to his lying, and will try to change laws so current policies can be kept, but never mentions anything about the unfairness of the higher cost of those policies many of us already had. I personally know of four young folks who will pay the penalty because they can't afford the high premiums because they are trying to pay down college debt. Right or wrong, it's their choice.
Robyn is the voice of reason on this thread. I can see why you may say that. Your reaction to someone posting their subsidy really galls you, doesn't it? You are obviously of the same mind set.
Of course, you realize that in order to qualify for that subsidy, they would naturally be low wage earners who could not otherwise afford to purchase insurance. But you think it better, they don't have insurance if it costs you anything. Is that right?
Robin, you are the voice of reason on this thread. I was appalled that golf gal would attack someone who says their premiums went up, and not say a thing to the person bragging about getting their subsidized insurance. My husband and I have close to $2000 extra a year that we will be paying now because of the Obama unaffordable healthcare. The school district I worked for stated the higher premiums were because of the new Obamacare. This is a nightmare for the middle class, especially those who don't qualify for government welfare. The bottom line is the uninsured will be insured, and the insured are getting screwed. I am holding my breath for my "Cadillac insurance" to skyrocket even more next sign up period. Oh, and I just love how Obama admits to his lying, and will try to change laws so current policies can be kept, but never mentions anything about the unfairness of the higher cost of those policies many of us already had. I personally know of four young folks who will pay the penalty because they can't afford the high premiums because they are trying to pay down college debt. Right or wrong, it's their choice.
What exactly will you be paying the extra $2000/year on? I find it very hard to believe that your premiums have risen that much in one year JUST because of "Obamacare"...give that your policies already have most of the provisions for the ACA in them. There is much more to this story....
So, without insurance companies, how exactly do you propose the country handle health insurance...and what do you propose the millions of people that work for insurance companies do for a living?
If deemed necessary, insurance companies can stay in place. They just become non-profit, and costs are controlled by government (same as they do with medicare). Insurance companies, are basically paper pushers. Their higher costs come in the form of advertising and shareholder profits (as well as extreme compensation packages and lavish business practices - all at the consumer's expense) They will not need their PR Departments or their advertising departments any longer.
This is what some countries have done. The better way, as far as less administrative cost and bargaining perspective is to have one system, like Medicare. It is also very cost effective for all of the doctors and hospitals. Yes, it would most likely reduce the required staff on both fronts. But then, that is just one step in reducing cost. You can also have both medicare, and supplemental plans available, though I think medicare should be able to stand on it's own for those who could not afford supplemental plans.
As for putting the traditional insurance company out of business, they are more likely to be hired by government instead to process the additional medicare claims. They are still performing the same tasks, only dealing with one policy though. Several countries went this route.
The insurance companies will of course fight this to the death. They like the way it is, thank you very much. And you can imagine the resistance to this from our politicians and the new talking points that will be eschewed in order to prevent this from happening. This is the same reason we can never accomplish any measures for the good of the people, if it in anyway displeases big business and effects their bottom line (their campaign doners) Our only control is our vote. Big business's control is the money that serves to get them re-elected. We have a very crooked system going on in Washington now. But that is the subject for another forum.
There are some very interesting books out there explaining how these transformations were accomplished in other countries, and what reforms were enacted to reduce costs, while still upholding their quality standards. Some of the stories of what led up to making this change is worth the cost of admission alone.
Doesn't seem like too many here are interested in really learning about this. This is a real shame, because you will never hear the truth from our politicians (with a few rare exceptions) because they won't work against their own best interest.
Anyone who tries to enact any legislation that does not benefit the corporations are run out of Washington very quickly.
So on this subject, you need to do your own research if you really want the truth.
Last edited by modhatter; 11-09-2013 at 02:11 PM..
the ACA is necessary... for our country as a whole it is bad for theeconomy to have health insurance tied to employment. It meanscompanies cannot compete globally, people stay at jobs they hate just for health insurance and people are afraid to start their own businesses because they can't get health insurance.
That's one of the main reasons I'm for the ACA.
However, people who start their own businesses can and do get health insurance through individual policies. It's just at an astronomical cost, which has continued to rise throughout the past decade, and apparently will continue to do so w/ the ACA. Let's hope that at some point, those costs come down.
If deemed necessary, insurance companies can stay in place. They just become non-profit, and costs are controlled by government (same as they do with medicare). Insurance companies, are basically paper pushers. Their higher costs come in the form of advertising and shareholder profits (as well as extreme compensation packages and lavish business practices - all at the consumer's expense) They will not need their PR Departments or their advertising departments any longer.
This is what some countries have done. The better way, as far as less administrative cost and bargaining perspective is to have one system, like Medicare. It is also very cost effective for all of the doctors and hospitals. Yes, it would most likely reduce the required staff on both fronts. But then, that is just one step in reducing cost. You can also have both medicare, and supplemental plans available, though I think medicare should be able to stand on it's own for those who could not afford supplemental plans.
But as you so noted, this could result in putting the traditional insurance company out of business, or more likely, hiring them instead to process the additional medicare claims. They are still performing the same tasks, only dealing with one policy though. Several countries have done this.
The insurance companies will of course fight this to the death. They like the way it is, thank you very much. And you can imagine the resistance to this from our politicians and the new talking points that will be eschewed in order to prevent this from happening. This is the same reason we can never accomplish any measures for the good of the people, if it in anyway displeases big business and effects their bottom line (their campaign doners) Our only control is our vote. Big business's control is the money that serves to get them re-elected. We have a very crooked system going on in Washington now. But that is the subject for another forum.
There are some very interesting books out there explaining how these transformations were accomplished in other countries, and what reforms were enacted to reduce costs, while still upholding their quality standards. Some of the stories of what led up to making this change is worth the cost of omission alone.
Doesn't seem like too many here are interested in really learning about this.
You do realize for about 85% of the people in the US now that Insurance companies are just that, paper pushers and costs are controlled by the policy owner, your company. Billions are also saved by the "buying power" of these large insurance companies and their negotiated prices with providers. Just about every company in the US that has 100 employees or more is self-insured and they contract with insurance companies to process the paperwork. These administration fees work out to be about 5% of the plan cost to a company. The number ONE reason people's rates go up is because they file too many claims--or too expensive of claims--like going to the ER for a cold vs going to your doctor. The design of the plans for the past several years work to curtail these costs and companies that have moved to more consumer driven plans, such as tax qualified plans with a HSA not only are containing costs but their premiums are going DOWN. It works the same way with the MA and Supplement plans for Medicare. Only those with traditional Medicare, part A and B only, are run through the government. Every other part is run through a private insurance company, much in the same manner as above.
I agree that insurance companies should be not-for-profit and living in a state where that has been the case since forever, we do enjoy lower premiums on average then other states..however, that doesn't mean that insurance companies don't make money. They make lots and lots of money, but those dollars are then returned to their "shareholders" who are policy holders and to their employees in the form of higher salaries and better benefits..it's a win/win for everyone.
Every time you buy a produce you are supporting these "lavish" compensation packages...just keep that in mind. Insurance companies are NOT out of the norm for that.....
However, people who start their own businesses can and do get health insurance through individual policies. It's just at an astronomical cost, which has continued to rise throughout the past decade, and apparently will continue to do so w/ the ACA. Let's hope that at some point, those costs come down.
Maybe yes, maybe no. We had individual policies for our family when I owned my own business. Our premiums were $580/month, total, for the the 5 of us. We had $3000 deductible and a $6000 out of pocket max. I think that was quite reasonable, especially considering I could deduct the premium costs....
We had individual policies for our family when I owned my own business. Our premiums were $580/month, total, for the the 5 of us. We had $3000 deductible and a $6000 out of pocket max. I think that was quite reasonable...
And how long ago was that? That sounds similar to what ours was, back in 1998...
According to this link Subsidy Calculator | The Henry J. Kaiser Family Foundation If my employer drops my insurance then my rate will go from $212 per month to $631 per month for an increase of $419 per month or $5028 per year. My current plan has a max out of pocket of $6,000 per year while the ACA silver plan is $12,700 for the State of Kansas. So if I have a typical year with no major health concerns then I would pay an additional $5028 per year and if I have a bad year then I would pay an additional $6700 per year.
End result equals up to $558 per month additional verses my current plan. My life style, cars, home, retirement investments etc....are all based on my current financial status. If my employer drops my coverage and I have to switch to ACA then what should I get rid of? Maybe I should drop my daughter's college fund? How about I sell my pickup because I can't afford it anymore? Perhaps I should sell my house and buy a smaller one?
One or more of you would benefit with free or reduced cost insurance at my loss. Who are you? Are you thankful? Does it make you feel good that to improve your lifestyle you have robbed from mine? So let's here it, what should I be forced to give up for your benefit?
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