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I've been self-insured and self-employed, which is why I understand the tax breaks one gets, not just with health insurance, but with all the breaks....and again, you and she both have choices, go on a group plan if you don't like paying for your full premiums...but again, you give up the benefits of being self-employed by doing that....which are many.
We pay 33 percent of our income in federal taxes. That will be reduced to about 27 percent after we restructure our business in 2016 but it's still a chunk - and a higher percentage, by the way, than the Obamas pay.
First, of course my health insurance costs would have gone up a bit over time - they always do. But ours have more than DOUBLED in cost in the past three years. That is a ridiculous jump. Couple that with the double whammy of our actual benefits being significantly reduced. So the actual cost to me is even higher. Now on top of the CRUSHING premium - which is about the same as my mortgage payment - I now have a huge deductible - and I have to pay every single stinking bit of that before any insurance payment comes into play. It's a joke when it comes to insurance. It's insane actually.
I understand that we have more coverage - more useless coverage, such as coverage for maternity care and pediatric dentistry just to name a few things. In the past, those were considered riders that one could opt in or out of - and we opted out, which kept our premiums lower. Now we don't have that option.
And yes, Texas does have a lot of uninsured people, but I've never been one of them. What you don't hear mentioned is how many of those uninsured residents are here illegally.
What you're really supporting is that I pay for maternity care for other people. I will never need maternity care for myself. I should be able to opt out of it in exchange for a lower premium. I used to be able to do that, but of course I can't do that now.
So in other words, rob Peter to pay Paul. And when you're doing that, you can always count on Paul's vote. And when you create more Pauls than Peters, Peter is always screwed.
It's not a matter of not understanding it - it's a matter of not agreeing with being forced to subsidize situations that I will NEVER experience.
We moved a couple of years ago, to a county that has a higher incidence of wind damage than the county we were previously living in. Our home owner's insurance went up, because our risk went up. Now - I may never file a claim and yet I've paid insurance all these years - but I don't have a problem with that because it's true that there's a higher risk of wind damage in my county - so it COULD happen. My house is at a higher risk than my former house. I get that.
But there is absolutely zero risk of me getting pregnant. Zero. I will never get pregnant. Four years ago I could purchase health insurance that did not include maternity care. It cost less. My insurance company was still making a profit on my insurance plan. Everyone was happy.
So what you're really saying is that I should be forced to pay for other peoples' maternity care.
Thanks for this "helpful" advice. I've already done so - repeatedly.
There are more people receiving subsidies (out of my pocket and the pockets of others) than there are people paying subsidies, so I "get it." I'm screwed. That doesn't mean I have to enjoy the experience - and it doesn't mean I'll put up with it without a fight.
I don't think you understand either the concept of insurance or the changes the ACA was meant to bring to the health insurance marketplace.
Men pay for maternity care too. Its one of ten essential benefits mandated by the Act. If men didn't pay for maternity coverage, women's health insurance would cost more, leading to the claim that the Act discriminates against women.
The concept of insurance is that of spreading risk and cost out among millions of people. A woman who has a hysterectomy may not get pregnant, but she was a baby once and benefited from good maternity care. If we didn't spread the risk out this way, than insurance premiums for young women of child-bearing years would be higher and many would choose to go without insurance at all.
I will repeat, healthy babies are good for everyone. We don't have to address their healthcare needs over their lifetime through medicaid or some other source. Healthy babies grow up to become healthy adults that work and pay social security and medicare taxes.
I do get good health insurance, but I think many people would be surprised how little use I've had to make of it in 56 years. I have some trouble with acid reflux, but other than that I would have been a windfall for just about any health insurance plan. We pay premiums through her employer that cover us for all kinds of things I never expect to use.
I see a dichotomy here between people who think they ought to be able to get any kind of a health insurance plan they want and those who believe, like me, that certain things should be mandated. BTW, I also believe that health insurance companies should not be able to discriminate by using a preexisting condition clause. That's the real key to the entire ACA and virtually everything else flows from that premise. The problem is that--at least for now--my side won out in Congress. Sorry you are unhappy. That's the way we decide things in this country. Win the next election by electing a nutcase like Ted Cruz and perhaps you'll get your way.
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Originally Posted by NSHL10
Hence the reason the Cadillac tax is being delayed. All those fine folks who pushed heavily for Obamacare all of a sudden don't want to help pay for it. It is the same old it is good for thee but not for me mentality.
As an aside, it will also be the reason why single payer won't be enacted. Those getting good bennies won't want a 20% increase in taxes to get the same crappy plans as the rest of the unwashed masses. The 1 percenters of health insurance don't want to share their "wealth" with others.
I actually support the Cadillac insurance policy tax. It was not my decision that it was not approved. I also supported the tax on medical devices. I agree that everyone, everyone should have some skin in this game. I would have more sympathy for those who seek these changes, if they sought amendments to the ACA rather than its complete repeal. Complete repeal basically means no substantive reform is ever likely to be enacted. I'm not being paranoid. I'm being realistic. It was a rare situation in 2008 that lead to the election of 60 democrats in the U.S. Senate. Neither party is likely to get those kind of numbers in the forseeable future.
[quote=NSHL10;42578143]
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Originally Posted by skyegirl
Most self employed people I know including myself are not against carrying health insurance. I've been paying full premiums for 20 years. My point is about how poor the ACA plans are. Your post confirms this. No ACA plan will only require a $250 OOP on a $450, 000 bill. You certainly are lucky to have access to such a plan. We would like the option to have access to such a plan, or maybe a completely refigured plan as businesses can purchase from insurance companies instead of being forced to purchase cookie cutter plans that don't meet our needs. Reconfiguring the definition of individual mandate would go a long way in opening up different choices in insurance coverage for those who purchase their own plans.
Best of luck in your recovery.
I could see looking at the ACA and seeing if a bit more flexibility could be given. What I can't see is going back to the "good ole' days" when people had health insurance that provided virtually no benefits. I don't see health insurance as a personal private decision. I see it as a decision that has social consequences for a family, a community, and a nation.
We pay 33 percent of our income in federal taxes. That will be reduced to about 27 percent after we restructure our business in 2016 but it's still a chunk - and a higher percentage, by the way, than the Obamas pay.
That's because you make OVER a Quarter of a Million Dollars a Year! If your a rich person making a lot of money, of course your tax bracket is higher than those who make much less. I'm in a 35% tax bracket after adjustments and guess what, taking home over $400,000 is still one heck of a payday.
Based on your posts you seem to greatly overestimate the tax breaks and other benefits that the self insured get. Your answer is for people to give up their businesses that they worked so hard for so that they can get employer based insurance? Is that what I'm hearing?
Again, it's not just the tax breaks from insurance I am talking about....and yes, if you don't want to pay full insurance premiums, get a different job...which, like you said, is pretty silly, but then also stop whining about paying insurance premiums and really sit back and look at what you have being self-employed....
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Originally Posted by KathrynAragon
My husband has testicles - he might get testicular cancer. Who knows about sickle cell - we all have blood cells. Same with all sorts of issues. However, pre ACA it was possible for me to forego the maternity rider. I could also lower my costs by excluding my right ankle from my policy - which I did, because I had torn the Achilles tendon on my right ankle and though I could have bought insurance to cover it, it would have been expensive - and I could just exclude it for two years and drastically lower my premium.
I have a house. My house is in a county with historically higher wind damage and higher claims. In fact, my very house had to have a new roof six years ago due to a tornado. So though I will probably never have tornado damage, it could happen.
BUT I HAVE NO UTERUS SO HOW CAN I POSSIBLY GET PREGNANT? I can't believe you can't see the difference.
My tax breaks aren't coming out of "your pocket" by the way. If you think so, please try to explain that one to me.
I worked a "real job" till I was in my fifties. I don't need your lecture on "getting a real job." My husband and I are self employed. On the advice of our CPA (not you - you've proven to me repeatedly that when it comes to taxes and company structure you frankly don't have a clue), we are restructuring and I will be an employee - maybe that will be a "real enough job" for you but who cares? It still will not lower our premiums AT ALL, by the way, though it may lower our massive taxes. I really have to smile when you say that our "tax breaks" are coming out of your pocket, when we paid an obscene amount of taxes last year - on top of our premiums for substandard health insurance.
You don't have testicles and BS on "excluding" your "right ankle" from your health insurance plan. I don't care if you don't have a uterus, the point you continually miss is that you are paying for all kinds of medical conditions that you can't possibly get and pregnancy is only one very small, very inexpensive portion of that cost. Read up on sickle cell...if you don't have it, you aren't "catching" it now....
I think it is you that doesn't have a clue how your taxes work and surprisingly, exactly what I have been suggesting all along is what you are doing, becoming an employee of your company..hummmmm..and your "obscene amount of taxes" really, that is ALL you paid??????? I wish!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by KathrynAragon
We pay 33 percent of our income in federal taxes. That will be reduced to about 27 percent after we restructure our business in 2016 but it's still a chunk - and a higher percentage, by the way, than the Obamas pay.
Really, did you donate 15% of your income to charities like the Obama's did? Doubtful. That is why their tax rate is what it is....
That's because you make OVER a Quarter of a Million Dollars a Year! If your a rich person making a lot of money, of course your tax bracket is higher than those who make much less. I'm in a 35% tax bracket after adjustments and guess what, taking home over $400,000 is still one heck of a payday.
LOL we don't make a quarter of a million dollars a year. Or anything close to $400,000 a year.
But even if we did, I wouldn't enjoy being screwed over by healthcare costs.
You don't have testicles and BS on "excluding" your "right ankle" from your health insurance plan. I don't care if you don't have a uterus, the point you continually miss is that you are paying for all kinds of medical conditions that you can't possibly get and pregnancy is only one very small, very inexpensive portion of that cost.
I think it is you that doesn't have a clue how your taxes work and surprisingly, exactly what I have been suggesting all along is what you are doing, becoming an employee of your company..hummmmm..and your "obscene amount of taxes" really, that is ALL you paid??????? I wish!!!
No, that's not all we paid by the way. Thirty three percent is just our federal taxes. When you add in other taxes we pay an even higher rate.
By the way, we're not doing the whole "hours worked" thing that you recommended about my employment - and we still won't qualify for any sort of group plan. We are simply restructuring to an S Corp rather than a simple LLC. This will save us some on our taxes but will not make any difference in our insurance premiums.
May I remind you that you have also seriously suggested several times that we close our business and just become "regular" employees again and "make less money?" Wow.
You can call "BS" on excluding my right ankle all you want, but that is exactly what we did. Apparently you don't realize how customized plans could be prior to the ACA.
One more point: I am not going to discuss our charitable contributions but I will say they're significant. This barely makes a dent in our tax rate, however.
For instance, if I make charitable contributions of, say, $20,000, that's a tax "saving" of approximately $5000. But I had to spend $20k to "save" the $5000. So I guess out of pocket, we're "only" out $15k rather than $20k.
Same with health insurance premiums - in order to see the tax "benefits" we have to spend four times that amount on premiums.
Like many other small business owners, we carry a lot of weight tax wise, and we don't qualify for any sort of subsidies, and the noose just continues to tighten. One thing I realized recently is that we paid $22k in SELF EMPLOYMENT TAXES ALONE last year. Yes, that's right. That's a tax simply because we're self employed. What???? Is there no end to the TENS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS that the government and now the healthcare industry via the government is demanding of us? We paid over $20k MORE in taxes alone last year, when our income only went up $10k. And our insurance premiums doubled last year as well. And our deductibles went up again this year, and our benefits were slashed again.
Every year it's worse. And like others have mentioned, we're about 15 percent of the population, and since we're not poor, I guess people think we can afford it so stick it to us, or something along those lines. We're not wealthy enough to have clout or connections with Big Business or political entities or lobbyists, and we're not poor enough to qualify for any extras or subsidies, so we're basically just screwed.
Last edited by KathrynAragon; 01-11-2016 at 08:12 AM..
Again, it's not just the tax breaks from insurance I am talking about....and yes, if you don't want to pay full insurance premiums, get a different job...which, like you said, is pretty silly, but then also stop whining about paying insurance premiums and really sit back and look at what you have being self-employed..
Being self employed is not all sunshine and roses. Building a business is not for the faint of heart. Pointing out the flaws and reality of obamacare is not whining either. Hopefully some will wake up and see it for what it is.
No, that's not all we paid by the way. Thirty three percent is just our federal taxes. When you add in other taxes we pay an even higher rate.
By the way, we're not doing the whole "hours worked" thing that you recommended about my employment - and we still won't qualify for any sort of group plan. We are simply restructuring to an S Corp rather than a simple LLC. This will save us some on our taxes but will not make any difference in our insurance premiums.
May I remind you that you have also seriously suggested several times that we close our business and just become "regular" employees again and "make less money?" Wow.
You can call "BS" on excluding my right ankle all you want, but that is exactly what we did. Apparently you don't realize how customized plans could be prior to the ACA.
One more point: I am not going to discuss our charitable contributions but I will say they're significant. This barely makes a dent in our tax rate, however.
For instance, if I make charitable contributions of, say, $20,000, that's a tax "saving" of approximately $5000. But I had to spend $20k to "save" the $5000. So I guess out of pocket, we're "only" out $15k rather than $20k.
Same with health insurance premiums - in order to see the tax "benefits" we have to spend four times that amount on premiums.
Like many other small business owners, we carry a lot of weight tax wise, and we don't qualify for any sort of subsidies, and the noose just continues to tighten. One thing I realized recently is that we paid $22k in SELF EMPLOYMENT TAXES ALONE last year. Yes, that's right. That's a tax simply because we're self employed. What???? Is there no end to the TENS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS that the government and now the healthcare industry via the government is demanding of us? We paid over $20k MORE in taxes alone last year, when our income only went up $10k. And our insurance premiums doubled last year as well. And our deductibles went up again this year, and our benefits were slashed again.
Every year it's worse. And like others have mentioned, we're about 15 percent of the population, and since we're not poor, I guess people think we can afford it so stick it to us, or something along those lines. We're not wealthy enough to have clout or connections with Big Business or political entities or lobbyists, and we're not poor enough to qualify for any extras or subsidies, so we're basically just screwed.
I think its rude to ask people their income and so I won't it do it. I will point out that federal tax tables show a family that pays a 33% rate has income upwards of $200,000 a year. Perhaps, you are including social security taxes when you give this rate, I do not know.
I will make the statement that if someone is earning even $12,000 to $15,000 a month they can afford health insurance premiums of $1500 or even $2,000 a month. If they can't, they should start by giving up charitable contributions on the theory that "charity begins at home".
If this is the group I am supposed to feel sorry for, I am having trouble doing it. I wonder how many who fit in this group own swimming pools, fancy cars, and McMansions?
It costs a lot to live in America and in other modern countries. Taxes are the price we pay for a civilized society.
LOL we don't make a quarter of a million dollars a year.
So lets start again and this time be HONEST; what is your federal tax bracket?
(every time you exaggerate your claims and get caught, it lessens any truth in what you are saying)
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