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More reasonable response than most, but still, so very subjective. When should one know that one shouldn't binge drink? Functional alcoholism is a real thing--where people essentially live an ostensibly normal life while hiding their alcoholism. That is, in the case(s) of what is typically referred to as "functional alcoholism", none of the normal external triggers (so conveniently compiled by runswithscissors above) would be telling the person to quit drinking. But external triggers are essentially based on luck. Internal health is the only thing that matters to me, and perhaps to the OP. There is no higher power to surrender myself to (that goes for you too, AA apologists), and no life situation is inherently a signal to me that I should reform. I think there's some grimy elegance in living like Charles Bukowski, a drunk, near-penniless poet residing in Skid Row. (elmarto, maybe you'd have more empathy for the panhandler set if you read some Bukowski, especially given that I think you live in LA). If I could get drunk every day with no risk to current health levels, I personally would without a second thought. Medical knowledge tells me I shouldn't, so I don't. But I get drunk a lot, still. I'd love to see data about health risk factors vs various levels of consumption--as far as I know, they don't exist to any satisfactory level of specificity. But maybe they do--maybe I just need a subscription to a medical journal or something. That sort of quantitative information is what matters, not people mindlessly throwing the word "alcoholic" around and liberally applying it to anyone who consumes more alcohol than they themselves do.
Oh I've known more of you than I can count.
When I was around 25, my best friend at work was drinking daily at lunch hour in the local restaurant. I had already decided "whatever"....it would play itself out.
We had very good jobs at the phone company, those lifetime huge benefits jobs with yearly raises, tuition assistance, etc.
One day we had a management meeting after lunch. I was sitting across from her and she made her contribution making some point or other....and I noticed her blouse was completely unbuttoned. Bra and boobs fully on display.
After she spoke I said in a very low voice "Jane, button up" and eyeballed her blouse.
Her response? HUGE disruptive RANT. She stood up and was screaming "You don't have the right to tell me to button up, I have just as much of a right to speak as everyone else ...blah blah blah, walking around the conference room table, all drama queen freak out.
She checked into rehab that weekend.
She stayed sober.
I worked for another "functional alcoholic" who screwed up EVERY SINGLE THING she touched but because she was 65 and near retirement they just ignored her. WE ALL had to carry her load and put up with her nonsense.
NOW, in my pet sitting business, I also worked for a "functional alcoholic" who was in the middle of a $22 Million divorce. I only say functional because she lived. She never worked or had anything she was required to do except be a wife and mother both which she failed miserably. 24 years drinking. I take that back, in her younger married days she was the top fund raiser in the social circles in the entire state of Florida. She DID have skills, unexplored.
After almost unintentionally killing herself SEVERAL times, smashing her face on concrete, slicing her feet open on broken glass, having the highrise staff take advantage of her, many MANY trips to the ER and alcohol poisoning, failing at rehab several times, being diagnosed at Betty Ford with left lobe brain damage and not even being able to drive without getting lost WHEN SOBER, she nearly LOST that settlement simply because she could not fulfill her obligations to her lawyer. Her husband and children gave up on her, would have nothing to do with her and the husband prayed for her to finally fall down the stairs, put an end to it all and let him keep his 22 Million. She was also a hoarder and would find herself in other STATES broke, without even knowing she flew there. (until they froze her money). Valuable jewelry lost, a LITANY of nonsense in her life. 3 kids with no mom, too.
Luckily they used me (the pet sitter) who she trusted to get in that condo daily and report out to them. The lawyer hired me and we became "friends" and it was very lucrative but of course stressful. I made about $25K a year just from HER. But I was alot more than "a pet sitter".
(because she DID care about her dog and failed to take care of her so I did)....and got her to stay at the Ford clinic to at least have 6 months peace after convincing her they could get yet ANOTHER involuntary commitment if she didn't go. They also put a freeze on her bank account and she had zero dollars for booze unless she borrowed from strangers.
Such a shame, a lovely sweet girl, never mean, and nobody casual to her knew of her situation. 48 years old - life OVER.
She never got to enjoy that $12 Million that's being doled out from a trust established to support her until she actually DOES make the final fatal error.
I'm not sure I understand your post but I think you have a very small circle of acquaintances and few points of reference.
Your stylized romantic version of gritty drinker is not anything based in reality. Very few people can pull off the Hemmingway narrative. In fact, 5 people in 4 generations of his family committed suicide.
In fact, I'd say your posts are exactly like my girfriend's management meeting experience just not as histrionic.
If nothing more, even if you enjoy your lives - you sure do make it difficult for everyone around you with your pain in the ass behaviors and ~accommodations we all have to make. It's always cute how you think nobody knows, too. No offense, LOL.
In fact to THIS DAY, Hemmingway is being a PITA and costing US taxpayer dollars with his cat situation!
I'm not sure I understand your post but I think you have a very small circle of acquaintances and few points of reference.
See, even when I'm 8 IPAs in, I don't make this sort of mistaken assumption. What in my prior post caused you to think I have a very small circle of acquaintances and few points of reference? I don't think I said anything to indicate that I had either many acquaintances or none. Was it the "no life situation is inherently..." bit? That's just me saying I'm open-minded enough to handle a wide variety of life circumstances. Don't make the mistake of dogmatically equating me to your girlfriend, or anyone else. Every case is different.
My only point was that we should try to avoid anecdotes like yours in favor of hard evidence. My question is when does that brain damage you speak of in the one case become likely? That's ultimately what I care about, what anyone should care about. Cautionary tales are in some perverted sense fun and cathartic to tell for the person telling them, but they have very limited applicability statistically....
And I don't mean to be dismissive of your experiences. Obviously, alcohol is an issue for many people and then by extension the acquaintances of those people. My own assumption based on your prior post was that you'd had some firsthand experience--otherwise, why compile such a laundry list of worst-case scenarios? That assumption seems to have been justified. Yours, though, I don't know where you got it. What does it matter if I'm a recluse or if I'm a socialite? The data about effects of alcohol should apply to the population at large...in reality it might not be that simple based on genetic and physiological differences, but the idea is to understand it in that way
The "stylized romantic version of gritty drinker" is based on one literary example that I threw out there for a couple different reasons, for what it's worth. But that's inconsequential compared to the above paragraphs.
Alcohol can be abused. But it's also incredibly pleasant under the right conditions. The idea should be to attempt to optimize its usage, objectively....
Those 12 drinks a week could almost be healthy for you if you had only 2 a day instead of 12 at a time. You should go to a nice coffee house to socialize and leave the bar for those who need a drink to express themselves. You are just going to meet others who drink too much socializing at a bar, and that will just make it harder for you to stop.
If you are on here asking then you already have your answer. It's just hard to stop a habit, but you will be happier if you don't have this to worry about. Try to socialize in other locations, a bar isn't the only place to hang out. Try going to a public gym, or do a meet up with people who share an interest. Good luck to you.
A functional alcoholic is still an alcoholic. Slapping the word functional in front of it doesn't make it somehow better. It's still an addiction and it's still alcoholism.
There are countless examples of addicts who were "in control of their addiction," until they weren't.
I go in telling myself I'm going to have 3-4 cocktails tops, and by the end of the night I've had 8-12 cocktails.
One of the definitions of an alcoholic is someone who cannot stop drinking once h/she starts.
Alcoholism has nothing to do with frequency of drinking. There are plenty of alcoholics who don't drink for long periods of time. You probably need to abstain, period.
One of the definitions of an alcoholic is someone who cannot stop drinking once h/she starts.
Alcoholism has nothing to do with frequency of drinking. There are plenty of alcoholics who don't drink for long periods of time. You probably need to abstain, period.
One of the definitions. The fact that multiple definitions exist, even as people use the term as if we've agreed upon a single definition, illustrates the meaninglessness of the term.
Trying to justify alcoholism because you think you can function reasonably well while drunk doesn't make it not alcoholism.
He is not trying to justify anything. He's trying to explain that some people's labels are extremely annoying!! Putting people in a box based on what they do or don't do is annoying!
What I don't understand is the "need" to alter reality to the point of being blitzed.
Sure, in my college days and early adulthood, I over-imbibed and felt awful the next day. With age came wisdom about how much to consume. One-two glasses of wine or 1-2 beers on occasion alters my reality enough that I don't want more than that..I know how much my body will tolerate to have me feel good and how much will make me feel ill. I'm not a large person so a little goes a long way.
Is it a need to blot out reality with (8 IPA's?) or 8- 10 cocktails that puzzles me. Is there a pain that needs to be killed with the alcohol?
Does it feel good to have that much alcohol in one's system? Are there physical effects the next day? How much is needed over what period of time to cause or not cause alcohol poisoning? It must differ greatly from person to person depending on condition of liver, body size and metabolism.
Me, I don't want to go there.
Whether or not a person is an alcoholic (functional or otherwise) I'll leave up to the medical and psychological experts to define. It's a label, but not a reason. I'm more curious as to the why of it.
Anecdote: in my first job out of college I worked with a lovely woman, mid thirties, slender, vibrant, happy-go-lucky, who was found dead in her apartment by her boss after she failed to show up at work for several days. Turns out, to (most) everyone's shock, that she died of cirrohsis of the liver and malnutrition.
She, according to several who knew her, would drink her lunch at a nearby bar every day. The liquid lunch never inteferred with her job...just with her life one day. I never saw her drunk, never smelled alcohol on her breath. It was just a huge shock. Still is. And very sad.
Was my co-worker an alcoholic or a functional alcoholic? Or neither? Does it matter? The result was the same.
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Oh I've known more of you than I can count. 
Good luck to you.
