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The Yamato actually had several battles down in the Philippines in 1944. In one battle she fired her big guns at several American ships, helping to sink two destroyers and a escort carrier. She met her fate in 1945.
Thanks I never knew that. But her effectiveness was miniscule, as was the case with all battleships in WW2. They were good for naval gunfire support, not much else. Very expensive offshore cannons. Despite them being made obsolete in the early part of WW2, the UK and USA still kept making these relics. The carrier was the ship that mattered, and cheap to make, with the USA adopting the UKs armoured carrier approach.
Yamato and Bismarck were both sunk by planes. The Bismarck was sunk by biplanes, the Swordfish. The planes had on-board radar dived down in cloud, levelled out at sea level and approached below the capability of the AA guns firing home their torpedoes. One hit the rudder. Not one was shot down. The Germans on the Bismarck could not believe that these antiquated planes were heading towards them in open sea. The Swordfish sunk more ships than any other plane in WW2.
Thanks I never knew that. But her effectiveness was miniscule, as was the case with all battleships in WW2. They were good for naval gunfire support, not much else. Very expensive offshore cannons. Despite them being made obsolete in the early part of WW2, the UK and USA still kept making these relics. The carrier was the ship that mattered, and cheap to make, with the USA adopting the UKs armoured carrier approach.
Yamato and Bismarck were both sunk by planes. The Bismarck was sunk by biplanes, the Swordfish. The planes had on-board radar dived down in cloud, levelled out at sea level and approached below the capability of the AA guns firing home their torpedoes. One hit the rudder. Not one was shot down. The Germans on the Bismarck could not believe that these antiquated planes were heading towards them in open sea. The Swordfish sunk more ships than any other plane in WW2.
Do you think the Swordfish sunk more ships then the US Dauntless dive bomber as I know that the Dauntless sank more then any US plane ? I just cant see the Swordfish sinking more then the Dauntless but I am only guessing because it was in the thick of the Pacific the whole war. Not trying to be smart but I thought the Dauntless would have sunk more. Ron
Do you think the Swordfish sunk more ships then the US Dauntless dive bomber as I know that the Dauntless sank more then any US plane ? I just cant see the Swordfish sinking more then the Dauntless but I am only guessing because it was in the thick of the Pacific the whole war. Not trying to be smart but I thought the Dauntless would have sunk more. Ron
The Swordfish sunk more ships, mainly Italian merchant ships.
Eric Brown, chief naval test pilot at Farnborough during the war ranked it higher than comparable US Naval aircraft. He also stated in his book that the Swordfish sank more tonnage than any of the comparable American and Japanese aircraft in WW2.
The Swordfish could be regarded as a sort of helicopter as it was highly manoeuvrable. It could take off vertically when into the wind on a carrier. It outlived its designed monoplane successor being used all through WW2. A strange anomaly of a plane that really stands out.
The Swordfish sunk more ships, mainly Italian merchant ships.
Eric Brown, chief naval test pilot at Farnborough during the war ranked it higher than comparable US Naval aircraft. He also stated in his book that the Swordfish sank more tonnage than any of the comparable American and Japanese aircraft in WW2.
The Swordfish could be regarded as a sort of helicopter as it was highly manoeuvrable. It could take off vertically when into the wind on a carrier. It outlived its designed monoplane successor being used all through WW2. A strange anomaly of a plane that really stands out.
I just never heard that it would have sank that much. I mean I would have thought the US sunk so much of the Japenese merchant ships that it would have been much more. I just never read of the Swordfish sinking that kind of tonage. Maybe I am thinking more of combat ships only I guess but its just I have not heard about the British sinking alot of someone's merchant navy. Atleast not a huge amount. But I have no figures to back up how I feel about it. Can you show any kind of figures comparing the tonage the Swordfish sunk compared to others ? Not trying to be smart here just find it hard to believe. Thanks , Ron
Brown give the figures in his book. I read parts of it and I "think" he had them in table.
A handful of Swordfish on Malta, no more than 27 at any time, and a lot less most time, sunk many Italian merchant ships supplying North Africa, averaging 50,000 tons per month from 1941 until 1943. That is about 1.5 million tons in around 2.5 years. No other plane equalled it in WW2. It was easy meat for enemy fighters so operated in areas like out at sea from carriers or at night from Malta using radar, or where the enemy had no fighters. The Swordfish was also used in the Far East. The Australians used it as did the Canadians.
The plane sunk three Italian battleships and the Bismarck. After modern torpedo aircraft were developed, the Swordfish was soon redeployed successfully in anti-sub work sometimes equipped with rockets for take off. They accounted for 21 U-Boats alone. The Mk.III had an anti-ship radar in a large radome between the landing gear legs with a range of about 40km. It could even detect a periscope or snorkel in calm seas.
Its low stall speed made it ideal for operating from the escort carriers in the often severe mid-Atlantic weather. When they took off from HMS Victorious in the Atlantic to attack the Bismarck, the deck was moving up and down 50 foot. Its take off and landing speeds were so low the carrier did not need to be steaming into the wind. They could be flow from carriers at anchor.
The Swordfish pioneered air to surface vessel radar (ASV), locating surface ships at night and through clouds, which helped sink the Bismarck.
It was made until Aug 1944. The plane also operated off Norway in anti shipping and anti-sub work. Probably the most remarkable plane of WW2.
I would think your are refering to the Battle of Leyte Gulf. I thought I read the Yamato did not score and direct hits there ? Ron
That's a good question. I don't know the answer except Yamato claimed hits. My whole point of course was to show that Yamato was in battle in 1944 and not on her maiden voyage when she was sunk in 1945.
^ Never knew that about the Swordfish planes. I always pictured them as cheap and outdated.
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Originally Posted by LINative
^ Never knew that about the Swordfish planes. I always pictured them as cheap and outdated.
They were cheap and outdated, they had a replacement built, but it proved inferior. The fact that these planes could just about takeoff from the pitch and roll of a carrier in rough seas made them invaluable, that and as UK John said, they had radar and could operate at night, when others couldn't...
They held up well and could take some damage but if there were enemy fighters in the area they were easily shot down
I doubt they were cheap. The whole plane was metal except the top wing of the bi-plane which was wood to reduce weight. Outdated? It looked outdated however was proven not to be by its outstanding performance. With state-of-the-art radar at the time it excelled in the roles it was given. No other plane could do what it did. That is why it was kept on when it was expected to be discontinued just after the outbreak of WW2. It could be said it was ahead of its time.
The British used the carrier in a different mode to the USA in 1939. Carriers were for reconnaissance, fleet protection and to direct the big guns of the Battleships to bare. The USA had the carrier as an attack ship operating in the vast Pacific, as did the Japanese. UK carriers were smaller and were not meant to be at sea more than a week as there was always an nearby friendly port having the world's largest ever empire. British carriers were expected to operate nearer land and in range of land based planes, hence the armoured carriers as opposed to the wooden decked US carriers. Hence why the Swordfish was a perfect plane for the role in the mid-1930s. The plane was based on a requirement for the Greek navy. The Greeks pulled out and the RN took interest.
The Swordfish planes that attacked and disabled the Bismarck had open cockpits and a machine gunner behind the pilot as in WW1. They were spraying the decks with bullets as they flew over. Later versions had enclosed cockpits.
They did hold up well and could take some flak damage and keep flying where other planes would fall out of the sky.
I rate it is the most remarkable plane of WW2. Forget the Spitfires, Mustangs, Lancasters, jets, etc. This visually looking relic, was ahead of many of them.
BTW, the Swordfish that disabled the Bismarck were launched from the Ark Royal of the Med fleet. Once the Bismarck was turning in circles, another flight was launched to finish her off. The Home fleet fired on the Swordfish telling them to keep away as Bismarck was theirs to sink. The RN fired on its own planes.
Neither ship had fire control radar, correct? If so, it was all done with optics. Both countries had great optics. By the end of the war when the Yamato undertook its final action (a suicide run), the crew was probably pretty poorly trained (and the Bismark had been sunk). When they fought would have been an issue, consequently, due to the importance of highly trained crews. The Yamato's last performance was miserable (and her previous one, too).
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