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The concept of free will. There was no motivation to do better or get ahead as a slave. And if a slave was smart and motivated, he or she either escaped or was put down...as a troublemaker. So....basically slave owners using selective "breeding" created a forward generation of people who don't have motivation, think for themselves, or have a desire for more. Just look at our urban ghettos if you don't agree with this....
The concept of free will. There was no motivation to do better or get ahead as a slave. And if a slave was smart and motivated, he or she either escaped or was put down...as a troublemaker. So....basically slave owners using selective "breeding" created a forward generation of people who don't have motivation, think for themselves, or have a desire for more. Just look at our urban ghettos if you don't agree with this....
Jasper12, I believe your statement is only partially correct. Where I take issue is with your statement about “selective breeding”. It is very true that selective breeding took place but not for the results you described below. Selective breeding was done to get bigger & stronger slaves, slaves that were faster and had more ability, etc. The attitude and thought patterns were conditioned using other methods. A slave owner in 1712 created a program that would culturally condition the slave mind for hundreds of years.
If you feel strongly about breeding being the primary factor in creating a culture of no motivation, no free thinking, or desire I’m challenging you to provide evidence of any research that came to this conclusion. There are many reasons for urban ghettos but the one you describe is unlikely. I’m a student of the black mind and the conditions and philology that explain it and I’m unaware of any credible studies that have come to the conclusion you mentioned.
Last edited by SHABAZZ310; 06-16-2012 at 11:14 AM..
Black slaves lived ten times better that your regular European peasant at that time, not only that, they were worth 10 times more.
I don't think that slaves were badly treated, since they were worth 10 times more than a poor white peasant.
Sure, there were cruel and sadistic slave drivers, but what about child labour in Europe at that time? What about sexual explotaition of female labour in factories, houses, everywhere? What about forced recruitment for constant and stupid colonial wars? I still remember the day when housemaids were just a toy for elder sons, grandfather and any visit.
Let's remember that at that time, XIXth Century, white children worked in coal mines to sneak in small holes. Children were exploted by their own families or sold to guilds if they had debts.
The ancestor of person that lives 400 meters from my house bought his house, a large three story house in a coastal town near Barcelona (home of many slavetraders), for the amount in pesos he got from the sale of his black maid in Puerto Rico in 1870 or so.
So with the price of a slave women you could buy a large and solid house not affordable to any peasant, artisan, country laborer, fishermen or small business owner.
As to black servants in the Old World, say in the XVIIIth Century, they were "suntuary objects", just like having silk or a balcony at the opera house. Only extremely rich people had blacks and they lived ten times better than your typical white servant, that were treated worse than horses.
Raping, murdering, burning on crosses, separation of families, erasing of entire family units and their histories yet you think Black slaves had it better? wow . . .just wow
Either way Shabazz....it is what it is....the legacy of slavery is that we have a collective group of folks who have no motivation. They expect to be taken care of...same as the slavery system when slaves were property, and provided for.
Slavery also produced the complete family dysfunction we see in many modern African American families.
Either way Shabazz....it is what it is....the legacy of slavery is that we have a collective group of folks who have no motivation. They expect to be taken care of...same as the slavery system when slaves were property, and provided for.
Slavery also produced the complete family dysfunction we see in many modern African American families.
I don't believe that you are necessarily arriving to the right conclusion.
Look at Africans in Africa, look at their society, what they are capable of, and what their values are.
Do they ( in their natural environment) tend to build houses a mile apart for a single family?
Do they strive for a high tech jobs?
What do their women value more on average - few children or career?
It might be so, that a lot of Blacks are not all that motivated to advance in a country ruled by White culture, particularly when they know all too well that the cards in that country are stuck against them.
Either way Shabazz....it is what it is....the legacy of slavery is that we have a collective group of folks who have no motivation. They expect to be taken care of...same as the slavery system when slaves were property, and provided for.
Slavery also produced the complete family dysfunction we see in many modern African American families.
I know where the problems stem from in the black community and I can say with certainty that “no motivation†is not one of them. This type of thinking is consistent within circles that believe black people are entitlement minded. This is not true. Dr. Na’im Akbar breaks down the tendency to focus on the contemporary status of blacks without appreciating the full context of recent history. When you follow the reactionary approach the end result will most likely be a flawed opinion. Not one black person that I know (and I know a lot) is looking to be provided for. So to make that claim with any authority you will need to provide data or a case study. If you’re not willing to back up your assertions I understand? It is tough work providing references and citations in this type of median. If you are interested in understanding the contemporary without having to do many hours of research I would suggest you read “The Isis Papers†by Dr. Frances Cress Welsing. She really breaks down what black people are up against…
I know where the problems stem from in the black community and I can say with certainty that “no motivation†is not one of them. This type of thinking is consistent within circles that believe black people are entitlement minded. This is not true. Dr. Na’im Akbar breaks down the tendency to focus on the contemporary status of blacks without appreciating the full context of recent history. When you follow the reactionary approach the end result will most likely be a flawed opinion. Not one black person that I know (and I know a lot) is looking to be provided for. So to make that claim with any authority you will need to provide data or a case study. If you’re not willing to back up your assertions I understand? It is tough work providing references and citations in this type of median. If you are interested in understanding the contemporary without having to do many hours of research I would suggest you read “The Isis Papers†by Dr. Frances Cress Welsing. She really breaks down what black people are up against…
What Dr. Welsing, this Dr. Welsing?
"In The Isis Papers she postulates the melanin theory, a hypothesis that has been called pseudoscientific and black supremacist,[3] that white people are the genetically defective descendants of albino mutants. She posits that because of this defective mutation, they may have been forcibly expelled from Africa, among other possibilities.["
"In The Isis Papers she postulates the melanin theory, a hypothesis that has been called pseudoscientific and black supremacist,[3] that white people are the genetically defective descendants of albino mutants. She posits that because of this defective mutation, they may have been forcibly expelled from Africa, among other possibilities.["
Wow, I just read the linked wiki article about melanin theory and can say they have that one wrong as can be. Melanin levels are caused by a genetic trait just like long hair; light skin, brown eyes, etc. From what I know about this subject is that at one point everyone came from Africa. From there human beings branched out to different parts of the world. Very different traits developed over time and we look like we do today because of it. Melanin is caused by dominate and recessive genes not superiority.
Black slaves lived ten times better that your regular European peasant at that time, not only that, they were worth 10 times more.
I don't think that slaves were badly treated, since they were worth 10 times more than a poor white peasant.
Sure, there were cruel and sadistic slave drivers, but what about child labour in Europe at that time? What about sexual explotaition of female labour in factories, houses, everywhere? What about forced recruitment for constant and stupid colonial wars? I still remember the day when housemaids were just a toy for elder sons, grandfather and any visit.
Let's remember that at that time, XIXth Century, white children worked in coal mines to sneak in small holes. Children were exploted by their own families or sold to guilds if they had debts.
The ancestor of person that lives 400 meters from my house bought his house, a large three story house in a coastal town near Barcelona (home of many slavetraders), for the amount in pesos he got from the sale of his black maid in Puerto Rico in 1870 or so.
So with the price of a slave women you could buy a large and solid house not affordable to any peasant, artisan, country laborer, fishermen or small business owner.
As to black servants in the Old World, say in the XVIIIth Century, they were "suntuary objects", just like having silk or a balcony at the opera house. Only extremely rich people had blacks and they lived ten times better than your typical white servant, that were treated worse than horses.
No one was hunted down by dogs if they wanted to relocate. No one in Europe had to wear iron collars with bells on them to make it virtually impossible for them to escape undetected. Were European adult and child laborers whipped viciously to the point of leaving enormous scars on their backs? How poorly did white servants live, that you think the life of slaves in the US compares so favorably? The US had White slaves before they had Black slaves, but the White slaves (mostly Irish indentured servants) were treated much better. Was it any different in Europe?
You are narrating very extreme examples that were rare, and mostly used as propaganda. Yes, European adults and childs were whipped viciously, in many cases by their own parents. No, indentured servants were treated badly. An African Slave in the US lived 100 better than a koljoz peasant during the Zarist and Stalin periods.
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