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Old 03-01-2014, 06:20 AM
 
821 posts, read 359,613 times
Reputation: 1239
The Nazis were the ones who exposed to the Poles the victims of the Katyn massacre and who committed that massacre.
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Old 03-01-2014, 06:56 AM
 
305 posts, read 174,732 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandstander View Post
Rather than hammering away fruitlessly at this question over and over, why do we not expand the general category to a larger game of wretched historical relativity?


Who was worse? Hitler or Himmler?

Who was worse? Stalin or Beria?

Who was worse? Charles Manson or Ted Bundy?

I think it best to stick to comparing chronological contemporaries, it could get difficult trying to figure out if Cardinal Richelieu was worse than say Strom Thurmond, but that still leaves us with a large pool.

Maybe we could organize a tournament to determine a champion. We should start seeding the competitors now.

Round One could feature:

Idi Amin vs Fidel Castro

Maximilien de Robespierre vs Antonio Lopez de Santa Anna

Pretty Boy Floyd vs Machine Gun Kelly

...but I shouldn't be making all the suggestions. Who else has some suggested pairings?
The executive at NBC who destroyed the early Carson tapes vs. the current executive who officially pulled Leno from the Tonight Show.
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Old 03-01-2014, 01:01 PM
 
183 posts, read 70,252 times
Reputation: 206
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cerebrator View Post
The Nazis were the ones who exposed to the Poles the victims of the Katyn massacre and who committed that massacre.
Yes, I mean Poland has rebounded nicely from Soviet occupation but 15 years ago the question of whether Poland made the right decision in siding with UK/France instead of Nazis, was a legit one. Of course this would have meant native Poles turning on their fellow Jews.
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Old 03-01-2014, 01:58 PM
 
821 posts, read 359,613 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharky8828 View Post
Yes, I mean Poland has rebounded nicely from Soviet occupation but 15 years ago the question of whether Poland made the right decision in siding with UK/France instead of Nazis, was a legit one. Of course this would have meant native Poles turning on their fellow Jews.
Uh, many native Poles turned on Jews, at the end of the war particularly. Many of them were fighting on the side of Jews during the war, only to find out that many who welcomed the Soviets and took park in the Katyn Massacre were Jews. Hence, there were pogroms AFTER the war, such as the Kielce pogrom. In Savage Continent, the author (forgot name) has a subchapter on this topic which had one Jew explaining how it was unsafe to return home to Poland and that one of his fellows saying, "Wherever you go, don't go back to Poland. They are finishing off what the Nazis could not."

Generally speaking, Poles and other Slavs and Jews never got along.
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Old 03-01-2014, 02:34 PM
 
183 posts, read 70,252 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cerebrator View Post
Uh, many native Poles turned on Jews, at the end of the war particularly. Many of them were fighting on the side of Jews during the war, only to find out that many who welcomed the Soviets and took park in the Katyn Massacre were Jews. Hence, there were pogroms AFTER the war, such as the Kielce pogrom. In Savage Continent, the author (forgot name) has a subchapter on this topic which had one Jew explaining how it was unsafe to return home to Poland and that one of his fellows saying, "Wherever you go, don't go back to Poland. They are finishing off what the Nazis could not."

Generally speaking, Poles and other Slavs and Jews never got along.
Correct. There are examples on both sides with Poles killing Jews and Jews killing Poles. I'm saying if Poland accepted Hitler's offer they would have needed to help round up Jews. Sure some people turned in their neighbors but for the most part it didn't occur. They were too busy hiding and fighting themselves.

Poland awarded Jews (IMO) too much freedom for those times (1000's onward) "Another factor for the Jews to emigrate to Poland was the Magdeburg Recht, or Magdeburg Law, a charter given to the Jews, among others, that specifically outlined the rights and privileges that Jews had coming into Poland. For example, they could define their neighborhoods and economic competitors, and set up monopolies. This was very attractive to Jewish communities to pick up and move to Poland"

This allowed Jews to disenfranchise themselves from the general public. Inter marriage between Jews & Poles was rare. It was not rare for a Jew with generations in Poland, to not speak a lick of Polish. Hence why Poles didn't need to turn in the Jewish population to German troops because they stuck out like a sore thumb.

Poland was a struggling nation during/following the back stabbing partitions. Because of the disenfranchisement I mentioned, Jews did not work alongside Poles in blue collar jobs instead over time becoming successful in other industries. This created resentment within the community because times were tough but Jews held "elite jobs". Furthermore Jew is a race. When there is such a large percentage of your population of a different race/religion etc, it creates friction, especially in those times especially during difficult economic times.

I would disagree with Poles and Jews having a history of not getting along. The numbers speak for themselves, obviously Jews chose Poland as their favorite destination.
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Old 03-01-2014, 03:55 PM
 
251 posts, read 410,621 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharky8828 View Post
"Hitler hated wanted to exterminate all Slavs" is Western propaganda just like how it was Hitler's plan for World Domination & to exterminate jews/gypsies/gays from the very beginning. It was not til the War was logically lost that this action was put in motion

The truth is Nazi ideology was broad and changed as time went by. Herzegovina had full rights in the Reich. Japanese (Non-Whites) were partners.

Hitler treated Poles worst because they denied his offer of partnership. I came across this interesting piece



What Hitler really thought about Poles
Frankfurt (UNIPRESS)

Today we possessed an information that needs to invoke a feeling of amazement in Pole. According to the United-Press agency, the U.S. authorities found in one of Frankfurt's secret bunker the Hitler’s memorandum addressed to Himmler dated 4 March 1944. In this memorandum, discussing the affairs of nations shattered by the Third Reich, "fuerher" wrote about Poles:

“Poles are the most intelligent of all the people with whom Germany came across during the war in Europe... Poles in my opinion and basing on the observation and reports from the General Government, are the only nation in Europe that combines high intelligence with the incredible cleverness. They are the most talented people in Europe, because while living in extremely difficult political circumstances, acquired the great sense of living, unparalleled anywhere.

Based on recent research made by Reichsrassenamt, the scientists came to the belief that Poles should be assimilated into German society as a racially valuable. Our scholars concluded that a combination of German orderliness with Polish imaginativeness would give excellent results”.

Forced by the bankruptcy of its policies, the testimony about virtues of our nation made by the greatest enemy of Polish national identity is worth attention.
Obvious fraud.
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Old 03-01-2014, 03:59 PM
 
251 posts, read 410,621 times
Reputation: 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cerebrator View Post
Uh, many native Poles turned on Jews, at the end of the war particularly. Many of them were fighting on the side of Jews during the war, only to find out that many who welcomed the Soviets and took park in the Katyn Massacre were Jews. Hence, there were pogroms AFTER the war, such as the Kielce pogrom. In Savage Continent, the author (forgot name) has a subchapter on this topic which had one Jew explaining how it was unsafe to return home to Poland and that one of his fellows saying, "Wherever you go, don't go back to Poland. They are finishing off what the Nazis could not."

Generally speaking, Poles and other Slavs and Jews never got along.
Give me a break, the Poles welcomed the Red Army as liberators too. The Nazis killed off 3 million non-Jewish Poles in addition to the 3 million Jewish Poles, and sent many others to slave labor camps within Germany. When the Red Army arrived many volunteered to join them in the final push to annihilate the disease of Nazi Germany from the face of the earth.

Even before WWII relations between Jews and Poles were testy that is true... there were many laws discriminating against them, in terms of numbers of Jews that could go to college and so on. But it usually didn't get to the point of violence.
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Old 03-01-2014, 04:01 PM
 
251 posts, read 410,621 times
Reputation: 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharky8828 View Post
Correct. There are examples on both sides with Poles killing Jews and Jews killing Poles. I'm saying if Poland accepted Hitler's offer they would have needed to help round up Jews. Sure some people turned in their neighbors but for the most part it didn't occur. They were too busy hiding and fighting themselves.

Poland awarded Jews (IMO) too much freedom for those times (1000's onward) "Another factor for the Jews to emigrate to Poland was the Magdeburg Recht, or Magdeburg Law, a charter given to the Jews, among others, that specifically outlined the rights and privileges that Jews had coming into Poland. For example, they could define their neighborhoods and economic competitors, and set up monopolies. This was very attractive to Jewish communities to pick up and move to Poland"

This allowed Jews to disenfranchise themselves from the general public. Inter marriage between Jews & Poles was rare. It was not rare for a Jew with generations in Poland, to not speak a lick of Polish. Hence why Poles didn't need to turn in the Jewish population to German troops because they stuck out like a sore thumb.

Poland was a struggling nation during/following the back stabbing partitions. Because of the disenfranchisement I mentioned, Jews did not work alongside Poles in blue collar jobs instead over time becoming successful in other industries. This created resentment within the community because times were tough but Jews held "elite jobs". Furthermore Jew is a race. When there is such a large percentage of your population of a different race/religion etc, it creates friction, especially in those times especially during difficult economic times.

I would disagree with Poles and Jews having a history of not getting along. The numbers speak for themselves, obviously Jews chose Poland as their favorite destination.
The Jews didn't necessarily disenfranchise themselves... there were laws forbidding Jews from entering various professions for a long time, similar to in Russia. Resentment dated back centuries and had more to do with religion as anything else. Jews were considered collectively responsible for killing Jesus Christ etc.
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Old 03-01-2014, 05:24 PM
 
821 posts, read 359,613 times
Reputation: 1239
Quote:
Originally Posted by Genghis View Post
The Jews didn't necessarily disenfranchise themselves... there were laws forbidding Jews from entering various professions for a long time, similar to in Russia. Resentment dated back centuries and had more to do with religion as anything else. Jews were considered collectively responsible for killing Jesus Christ etc.
I'd say overrepresentation in the white slave trade, organized crime, pornography, communism, and financial chicanery is a way of disenfranchising a people.
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Old 03-01-2014, 08:11 PM
 
Location: Cali
3,296 posts, read 3,661,419 times
Reputation: 1719
Hitler or Stalin? One was no better than the other. Its like a choice between lung cancer or throat cancer.
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