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Despite all the hoopla about gay marriage and the general public's change of heart towards the subject I feel like we live in an essentially conservative and right wing time. Nationalism is growing in Europe, libertarian conservatism is growing all over the West and generally speaking the environmental movement and socialist movements have both failed and big business has won. With the exception of the Catholics who are making some huge leaps to rescue their image religions are becoming more fundamentalist and reactionary whether it's militant Christianity in Africa, Hindu-castepitalism in India or the ever present and familiar Wahhabi genocidal maniacs.
I don't see the early 21st century as being a tolerant or enlightened time, I see it as being indifferent on one hand and fundamentalist on the other depending on who and where you are.
I think aside from the issue of Gay Rights this is one of the least liberal/left eras in American history. During the 1920 presidential election Eugene Debs running under the banner of the American Socialist Party received nearly a million votes (5% of the electorate). Four years later, in 1924 Robert M. La Follette received 17% of the vote as the Progressive Party candidate for President. Both would make Bernie Sanders look like a centerist Democrat. At its height, the Communist Party boasted 60,000 members with influence in other organizations that gave it influence far more than its membership would reflect. And I haven't even begun to list the radicalization of the American Labor Movement or the civil right movement of the turn of the century to the 1960's.
Addendum - Anyone with a shred of intellectual honesty and even the most marginal knowledge of history presidential history would recognize that in comparison to Theodore Roosevelt, Franklin Roosevelt, Lyndon Johnson or even Richard Nixon for god sake, would recognize that there is nothing remotely left, much less ultra left about the past three Democratic Presidents.
I am libertarian (small 'l') to the core, and have been since a year or two before that concept was embodied in a formal political party.
I have no problem with the development of a societal safety net, so long as it is administered and policed locally, so as to weed out the "professionally parasitic".
And I'm disturbed about the threats to autonomy and privacy arising from the "Orwellian workplace'. But we need to protect and empower the responsible individual, not to place more authority in the hands of bureaucracies which exist only to aggrandize themselves.
I view both religion and sexuality as the most private of all matters. But I am as disappointed in the LGBT contingent's willingness to join the Democrats' coalition of dysfunctional losers as I am dismayed by the Religious Right's long-standing tactic of simple answers for simple minds.
The "one size must fit all" approach, with its large, uniform and malignant bureaucracies, and which was developed in the early years of the Twentieth Century, is unworkable; the abuse of power by the public employee unions, and the breakdown of the City of New York a generation ago, and the current paralysis in the State of California are sufficient proof of what lies down the road.
We don't need revolution; we need reform. But the current power structure has nothing to gain from it; it has to keep the boob guzzling in front of the tube that he's better off surrendering his options to Big Brother/Sister.
And I am absolutely convinced that the legion of "New Puritans" who are the driving force behind the Fascism called Political Correctness are the biggest beneficiaries. A spoonful of sugar might help the medicine go down, but Mary Poppins has been know to resort to some less dignified, and more invasive treatments when all the chips are on the line.
Last edited by 2nd trick op; 04-10-2014 at 02:26 PM..
So it would appear that so-called "progressive" political standards are to be treated as relevant to history, but economically conservative (yet socially liberal by Classical standards) views are not.
Thank you for placing the double standards and inherent bias in Political Correctness in the front window for all of us to see.
Last edited by 2nd trick op; 04-10-2014 at 04:36 PM..
It seems like there's too much focus on sexual issues like abortion and gay marriage and not enough on things that matter more, like people being able to make a living and ecological stewardship. Pretty disappointing.
So it would appear that so-called "progressive" political standards are to be treated as relevant to history, but economically conservative (yet socially liberal by Classical standards) views are not.
The HISTORY of conservative economics, or political philosophy regardless of the personal perspective on lends to that history would be exceedingly appropriate for this forum.
Declarations of personal political view, foisting informal fallacies (see straw man arguments), and general editorializing without a historical context not so much.
When your post is replete with such statements as:
"I am libertarian"
"I'm disturbed about the threats to autonomy and privacy arising from the "Orwellian workplace'."
"I view both religion and sexuality as the most private of all matters."
"We don't need revolution; we need reform."
"I am absolutely convinced that the legion of "New Puritans"
these are all declarative statements more appropriate in Politics and other Controversies than in the history forum.
It has absolutely nothing to do with your personal political viewpoints.
So, let's get back to the topic at hand which is:
"Do people overrate how liberal and progressive today is compared to other times?"
Now if you would like to point out from a conservative view point how today's "leftist/Progressives" compare to the abundant history of progressives, populist, socialist (Marxist or Utopian), communist, or anarcho-syndicalist with what we refer to as the left of today, please feel free to add to the conversation based upon any political predisposition that you may have.
Feel free to point out how, let's say, Ellen Warren compares to Emma Goldman; or perhaps you would be more comfortable with Eugene Debs vs Bernie Sanders. There is always the difference between today's American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees with the International Workers of the World. In fact we don't even have to go back that far we can compare Occupy Wall Street, with Students for a Democratic Society (SDS), the Black Panther Party or the "New Black Panther Party(sic)." We might even discuss the populism of a William Jennings Bryant, Huey Long or Robert M La Follette or Henry Wallace vs ... humm can't think of a single populist... so never mind about that last one.
The HISTORY of conservative economics, or political philosophy regardless of the personal perspective on lends to that history would be exceedingly appropriate for this forum.
Declarations of personal political view, foisting informal fallacies (see straw man arguments), and general editorializing without a historical context not so much.
So, the topic at hand is
"Do people overrate how liberal and progressive today is compared to other times?"
Now if you would like to point out from a conservative view point how today's "leftist/Progressives" compare to the abundant history of progressives, populist, socialist (Marxist or Utopian), communist, or anarcho-syndicalist with what we refer to as the left of today, have at it.
Well, considering today's political spectrum some would argue that he is to the left of Leon Trotsky. But again considering the topic of the thread the question should be, "is Obama or the Democratic Party for that matter further to the left than in any previous period in American history?" Within that context, I would argue that the question is patently absurd.
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