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Probably no different. The Ottoman empire spent centuries as the "sick man of Europe" - not really an empire as much as a collection of vassal and autonomous states that belonged as part of the empire in name only. The rulers had no influence in it's empire and the various tribes. The middle east still has that identity as arab states.
But to think the Empire would have survived the 20th century would be to erase the history of Europe and the World for 300 years.
The Turks pretty much kept a lid on the middle east for centuries in the sense that the mindless eternal conflicts stayed there and weren't contaminating the rest of the globe like they have for the past 50 years. Of course, communications and transport were still relatively slow and primitive in that time. IF the Ottoman Empire had somehow survived the end of WW1 and had made it through WW2, it's difficult to imagine what form it would take and how it could function in the current era.
The Turks pretty much kept a lid on the middle east for centuries in the sense that the mindless eternal conflicts stayed there and weren't contaminating the rest of the globe like they have for the past 50 years.
OH. You mean by coming in from the middle east, invading Turkey, sacking Constantinople and all those other awesome peaceful things they did? Such diplomats they are!
Here's a totally awesome thing that the Turks kept a lid on in 1821!
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Gregory V was Ecumenical Patriarch of Constantinople from 1797 to 1798, from 1806 to 1808 and from 1818 to 1821. At the onset of the Greek War of Independence, as Ethnarch of the Orthodox Millet Gregory V was blamed by Ottoman Sultan Mahmud II for his inability to suppress the Greek uprising, even though he had actually condemned the Greek revolutionary activities.
He was taken out of the Patriarchal Cathedral on Easter Sunday, 1821, directly after celebrating the solemn Easter Liturgy, and hanged (in full Patriarchal vestments) for three days from the main gate of the Patriarchate compound by order of the Sultan; his body was then taken down and delivered to a squad of Jews who dragged it through the streets and finally threw it into the Bosphorus The body was later recovered by Greek sailors and was eventually enshrined in the Metropolitan Cathedral of Athens. He is commemorated by the Orthodox Church as an Ethnomartyr Image bright and clean; spotting to blank borders.
Wow! Executing the Patriarch on Easter is really a good idea!
Or perhaps you might be a little interested in the peacekeeping of the Matyrs of Batak?
That little chopping off of heads is really helpful!
Here's a bit about their good work!
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The mini liberation revolt has been extinguished by Ahmed Aga Barutanliqta in the brutal blood-bath according to different historical estimations the murders done by The Turkish mayor Ahmed Aga had been in the range of in between 1750 and 5000 people most of which were an innocent peasants who had voluntary agreed to left behind all their weapons and surrender to the Turkish bashi-bozluk.
It's known as the first modern genocide because of the press coverage it received in England.
But, you know, in your heart of hearts I don't think you really want to murder anyone. This is just an example of when people think they're an expert in something that they don't know anything about.
When my dad was a kid he still had aunts and uncles who were alive during that time, as Bulgaria was still under the Ottomans well after the U.S. Civil War, and you know how people in certain parts of the country still feel passionate about that. To us, this time period is not something lost to history. It's very real.
OH. You mean by coming in from the middle east, invading Turkey, sacking Constantinople and all those other awesome peaceful things they did? Such diplomats they are!
Here's a totally awesome thing that the Turks kept a lid on in 1821!
But, you know, in your heart of hearts I don't think you really want to murder anyone. This is just an example of when people think they're an expert in something that they don't know anything about.
When my dad was a kid he still had aunts and uncles who were alive during that time, as Bulgaria was still under the Ottomans well after the U.S. Civil War, and you know how people in certain parts of the country still feel passionate about that. To us, this time period is not something lost to history. It's very real.
Relax, sis.
Read my post about the Turks keeping a lid on the middle east. Save your history lesson unless of course you just feel compelled to hold forth. And please point out where I made out the Ottomans to be the good guys and that I approve of their actions.
If it were still around what would be different about the ME? Would it be better or worse?
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Originally Posted by Old Gringo
The Turks pretty much kept a lid on the middle east for centuries in the sense that the mindless eternal conflicts stayed there and weren't contaminating the rest of the globe like they have for the past 50 years. Of course, communications and transport were still relatively slow and primitive in that time. IF the Ottoman Empire had somehow survived the end of WW1 and had made it through WW2, it's difficult to imagine what form it would take and how it could function in the current era.
I do not know if it would be better or worse but I agree with what Old Gringo is saying.
I think if the Ottoman Empire still existed, much of the extremist terrorism might be directed against them, rather then say the West. This is because while we tend to think of ISIS and Al Qaeda as almost entirely as religious movements, they are actually also extreme Arab nationalist movements. Notice for instance, that most of their members traditionally come from the Arab world and notice that they often attack non-Arab ethnic groups (such as the Kurds) even when they are Sunni-Muslim.
I do not know if it would be better or worse but I agree with what Old Gringo is saying.
I think if the Ottoman Empire still existed, much of the extremist terrorism might be directed against them, rather then say the West. This is because while we tend to think of ISIS and Al Qaeda as almost entirely as religious movements, they are actually also extreme Arab nationalist movements. Notice for instance, that most of their members traditionally come from the Arab world and notice that they often attack non-Arab ethnic groups (such as the Kurds) even when they are Sunni-Muslim.
Exactly. People interpret the middle east terrorism as an religious movement. Religion is just a propaganda tool. These are nationalistic tribal forces fighting it out for the same reasons they have been fighting it out since the dawn of man - power and influence. The Ottoman Empire was an Empire in name only. These forces were cutting off heads and burning humans alive before, during, and after the Ottoman Empire. Napolean came into Egypt claiming to be a liberator to the Ottoman's, until they realized the tribes of that land just made them another enemy in addition to the Ottomans. They didn't need either.
The Turks pretty much kept a lid on the middle east for centuries in the sense that the mindless eternal conflicts stayed there and weren't contaminating the rest of the globe like they have for the past 50 years. Of course, communications and transport were still relatively slow and primitive in that time. IF the Ottoman Empire had somehow survived the end of WW1 and had made it through WW2, it's difficult to imagine what form it would take and how it could function in the current era.
It seems what went on in the ME didn't really affect us or matter until oil was discovered.
Scratch that. I forgot about the pirates, and Ottoman Empire.
If that empire still existed, the U.S would invade it to teach the Turks a lesson.
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Take that chip off your shoulder
