A brief summary of the Ottoman Empire, Young Turks, Ataturk, Turkey, please? (war, 70's)
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I need to write an essay about the Armenian genocide for a uni class. I'm looking to get quickly familiarized with what happened between the 1200s and the first half of the 20th century of the Ottoman Empire to enhance my understanding and to make the essay better and more well thought out. It's easier to write these 5,000 word things when you understand the context, of course. Anyone want to try to catch me up in a simplified way?
I'm reading through a ton of stuff right now, but it's a lot absorb and I'm always worried about misunderstanding things. I'm not asking for anyone to do the essay, just a quick history lesson so I don't have to be self-conscious of the chronology.
I know that's a huge bracket, I just meant a really compressed version. It doesn't have to be detailed and heavy.
Anyways, between what I've been skimming through I could say something like this:
"The Ottoman Empire started during the late 13th century when small Turk tribes gained control of increasing stretches of territory of NW Anatolia following the Seljuks. At the height of their Empire (16-17cs) under Suleyman (sp?) they had spread from corners as far as modern day Morocco, to Hungary, and to coastal Saudi Arabia. It began to decline after a series of disputes between the central and Balkan states, and the Russo-Turkish war. A major catalyst was siding with central powers during WW1, so that when they lost, the Empire was downsized to little more than Anatolia.
Ottoman Turkey eventually saw groups of nationalists come together (Young Turks) which led to the idea of "pan-Turkism", a more homogenous state and new independence (Republic of Turkey) through Mustafa Ataturk, who brought secularism and universal education among other things."
I'm not going to use that as it needs to be straightened out, but I was looking for a little help or some input to better my understanding. Maybe other important events, people. Etc.
I had extensive conversations about this with an educated Armenian lady. So this was her take on things: In 1492 jews were expelled from Spain. The result of the expulsion was that the jews lost their economic base in the west. The jews then moved from Spain to the scene of the economic action at that time and that was the Ottoman Empire. Now the jews tried to gain an economic foothold and get into economic controlling positions but the Armenians wouldn't let the jews into controlling positions and the Armenians were able to block the jews because Armenians controlled the finances of the Ottoman Empire. But jews didn't do too bad in the Ottoman empire and some jews did quite well but they couldn't get into economic controlling positions. So the jews tried to create the state of Israel but the Armenians wouldn't let them because if the jews got their state of Israel they would have an economic base with which they could compete with the Armenians. The jews tried and tried to get into economic controlling positions in the Ottoman Empire but the Armenians always blocked them. For five centuries the jews tried but couldn't. So finally around the turn of the last century the jews financed an anti Armenian Turkey nationalist politician named Ataturk. Now the unusual thing about Ataturk is that he was a donmeh jew. A donmeh jew is one that publicly is a muslim but in secret and private is jewish. So Ataturk won control of Turkey and then physically removed the Armenians from the economic controlling postitions and jews were able to step into those controlling positions.
That is really an intriguing story and I don't know how much of it is true but the Armenian lady fully believed it.
I had extensive conversations about this with an educated Armenian lady. So this was her take on things: In 1492 jews were expelled from Spain. The result of the expulsion was that the jews lost their economic base in the west. The jews then moved from Spain to the scene of the economic action at that time and that was the Ottoman Empire. Now the jews tried to gain an economic foothold and get into economic controlling positions but the Armenians wouldn't let the jews into controlling positions and the Armenians were able to block the jews because Armenians controlled the finances of the Ottoman Empire. But jews didn't do too bad in the Ottoman empire and some jews did quite well but they couldn't get into economic controlling positions. So the jews tried to create the state of Israel but the Armenians wouldn't let them because if the jews got their state of Israel they would have an economic base with which they could compete with the Armenians. The jews tried and tried to get into economic controlling positions in the Ottoman Empire but the Armenians always blocked them. For five centuries the jews tried but couldn't. So finally around the turn of the last century the jews financed an anti Armenian Turkey nationalist politician named Ataturk. Now the unusual thing about Ataturk is that he was a donmeh jew. A donmeh jew is one that publicly is a muslim but in secret and private is jewish. So Ataturk won control of Turkey and then physically removed the Armenians from the economic controlling postitions and jews were able to step into those controlling positions.
That is really an intriguing story and I don't know how much of it is true but the Armenian lady fully believed it.
How did that part of the conspiracy theory work out?
To make the theory more credible, one would also need to explain how Kemal could be responsible for the Armenian Genocide of 1914-1918 (esp. 1915-16) when he only "took control" of Turkey in late 1919.
I had extensive conversations about this with an educated Armenian lady. So this was her take on things: In 1492 jews were expelled from Spain. The result of the expulsion was that the jews lost their economic base in the west. The jews then moved from Spain to the scene of the economic action at that time and that was the Ottoman Empire. Now the jews tried to gain an economic foothold and get into economic controlling positions but the Armenians wouldn't let the jews into controlling positions and the Armenians were able to block the jews because Armenians controlled the finances of the Ottoman Empire. But jews didn't do too bad in the Ottoman empire and some jews did quite well but they couldn't get into economic controlling positions. So the jews tried to create the state of Israel but the Armenians wouldn't let them because if the jews got their state of Israel they would have an economic base with which they could compete with the Armenians. The jews tried and tried to get into economic controlling positions in the Ottoman Empire but the Armenians always blocked them. For five centuries the jews tried but couldn't. So finally around the turn of the last century the jews financed an anti Armenian Turkey nationalist politician named Ataturk. Now the unusual thing about Ataturk is that he was a donmeh jew. A donmeh jew is one that publicly is a muslim but in secret and private is jewish. So Ataturk won control of Turkey and then physically removed the Armenians from the economic controlling postitions and jews were able to step into those controlling positions.
That is really an intriguing story and I don't know how much of it is true but the Armenian lady fully believed it.
The answer to how much of this is true is...none of it. Seriously that sounds like an excerpt from the "Big Book of How Jews Control the World".
The fact of the matter is that Armenians had no power in the Ottoman state. When the Armenian Kingdom of Silicia fell to the Mamluks in the 1390's, most Armenian families of wealth fled and joined diaspora communities around Europe. Cyprus was a major destination and it was ruled by the Armenian royal dynasty until the 1490's and was not conquered by the Ottomans until the 1570's; at which point most Armenians and others fled to join diaspora communities in France, Italy, Poland, Netherlands, etc.
What was left in what became the Ottoman province of Adana (historically western Armenia) was the lower classes. It became a breeding ground for Armenian nationalism and Armenians were NEVER incorporated into the Ottoman Empire. This is a quote from a British ehtnographer who visited the Ottoman Empire in the 1890's:
Quote:
Turkish rule... meant unutterable contempt... The Armenians (and Greeks) were dogs and pigs... to be spat upon, if their shadow darkened a Turk, to be outraged, to be the mats on which he wiped the mud from his feet. Conceive the inevitable result of centuries of slavery, of subjection to insult and scorn, centuries in which nothing belonged to the Armenian, neither his property, his house, his life, his person, nor his family, was sacred or safe from violence – capricious, unprovoked violence – to resist which by violence meant death
Read that. Does that sound like people who were "controlling the finances of the Ottoman Empire"?
The ultimate genesis for the genocide (which also included Assyrians and Greeks, basically Orthodox Christian groups) was the rise of nationalist movements in the Ottoman Empire, leading these groups to look towards a benefactor. That benefactor was Russia. When the Ottoman Empire went to war with Russia in WW1, Armenians in Russia joined the Russian armies under the promise of gaining a homeland. The Turks used the created threat of an uprising of Armenians in the Ottoman Empire and creation of a "fifth column" to carry out the genocide.
I need to write an essay about the Armenian genocide for a uni class. I'm looking to get quickly familiarized with what happened between the 1200s and the first half of the 20th century of the Ottoman Empire to enhance my understanding and to make the essay better and more well thought out. It's easier to write these 5,000 word things when you understand the context, of course. Anyone want to try to catch me up in a simplified way?
I'm reading through a ton of stuff right now, but it's a lot absorb and I'm always worried about misunderstanding things. I'm not asking for anyone to do the essay, just a quick history lesson so I don't have to be self-conscious of the chronology.
Coming from a family who had members in higher academic positions in the Ottoman Empire and more importantly higher ranking officers in Turkish military, what little I came to dug up on this topic, though still ugly and tragic, would debut many of the theories suggested here and elsewhere including the so-called Armenian genocide. Will I share that info here? Absolutely not, I would get slammed and disputed like there is no tomorrow. I just wanted to say, do not expect to hear anything remotely accurate or credible from anyone who so far shared their $0.02's worth. Most weren't even close. Some had good points but overall,what you will find/hear, will more than likely be biased and inconclusive heresy with absolutely no reputable, verifiable source much like that ridiculously rubbish quote of the British ethnographer. Sadly, anyone reading that passage will likely to believe this info and picture Turks as bunch of monsters who enslaved any race after conquering their land. Oh my! Butt-hurt Europeans and delusional former minorities and their ridiculous anti-Turk propaganda. When will this end?
Coming from a family who had members in higher academic positions in the Ottoman Empire and more importantly higher ranking officers in Turkish military, what little I came to dug up on this topic, though still ugly and tragic, would debut many of the theories suggested here and elsewhere including the so-called Armenian genocide. Will I share that info here? Absolutely not, I would get slammed and disputed like there is no tomorrow. I just wanted to say, do not expect to hear anything remotely accurate or credible from anyone who so far shared their $0.02's worth. Most weren't even close. Some had good points but overall,what you will find/hear, will more than likely be biased and inconclusive heresy with absolutely no reputable, verifiable source much like that ridiculously rubbish quote of the British ethnographer. Sadly, anyone reading that passage will likely to believe this info and picture Turks as bunch of monsters who enslaved any race after conquering their land. Oh my! Butt-hurt Europeans and delusional former minorities and their ridiculous anti-Turk propaganda. When will this end?
Your insistence on all of us being incredibly wrong isn't worth much when you are not even willing to share the information that will "debunk" everything we are saying for fear of ridicule. I don't doubt that there are two sides to every story and from the Ottoman perspective they were eliminating a threat within their borders. That they had a reason doesn't mean it wasn't genocide as is recognized by many nations and organizations. You criticize us for "hearsay", but we can quote actual academic sources for our positions. Your counter is that you have info from relatives who were in positions of power within the Ottoman government 100 years ago. How many times have these gems been "whispered down the lane"?
As for the British enthnographer, he wrote the book based on his observations. There is no denying that non-Muslims were second-class citizens within the Ottoman Empire. Was he exaggerating the case, perhaps, but I was using it as an example to counter another posters statement that the Armenians were the finanical leaders of the Ottoman Empire until the Jews had them killed off...
Anyway, there are better pieces of evidence than the British ethnographers. My personal favorite is that the Ottoman government in 1918 attempted to receive payments on life insurance policies underwritten by New York Life on Armenians that had been killed in the genocide. The Ottoman government argued that there were no "identifiable heirs" so that the policies belonged to the Ottoman government. NY Life refused to payout. In 2004 after the State of California passed the Armenian Genocide Insurance Act, descendants were able to settle the policies and receive the payouts totalling around $20 million.
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