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You seem to be completely unaware of what happened between 1937 and 1948. Like the industrialized murder of 6,000,000 European Jews during WW2 (that started in 1939). In 1937, things looked bleak but nobody expected a wholesale slaughter. After the Holocaust, the Zionists (while the word has become a smear term after decades of Soviet and Arab propaganda, all it means is a person who supports the right of Jews to have a state of their own in Israel) were ready to agree to any partition to get land of their own for surviving Jews. They knew that this was the only way to ensure the survival of the Jews and to avoid the next Holocaust. In 1948 the few surviving Jews returning home from the camps were still being killed in the streets in Poland.
I am very well-aware of the Holocaust and of the fact that approximately six million Jews, including many of my own Jewish family members, tragically lost their lives in it. However, this does not necessarily invalidate what I said about the Zionists (or at least about some of the Zionists) only accepting the 1947 UN Partition Plan in order for them to look good in the eyes of the international community while allowing them to keep open the option of expanding their Jewish state in the future.
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You mean the wave of murders and pogroms in the Arab countries around the time of the UN vote did not count as an expulsion ?
I will read the information in these links and then get back to you on this.
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Culturally, they are a different people. The "Arabs" is an umbrella name covering different peoples very loosely united by region, language and religion. The Bedouins are nomads of the desert and don't always have the best relations with other Arabs. The Israeli Bedouins often serve as scouts in IDF.
Just like Druzes - the other Arab people who live in Israel and are extremely patriotic, fully integrated into society alongside the Jews, serve in the Army, and often take high command posts in IDF - I read somewhere that historically, the % of Druze officers has been higher than the % of Druze population in Israel. Also, many Lebanese Christian Arabs emigrated to Israel after the Christians lost the war there and IDF withdrew. Their descendants also tend to be loyal to Israel. So the conflict is not about "Arab" vs "Jew", at least on the ethnic level. It's the clash of Arab nationalism (that is exclusive of many Arab sub-groups) and Zionism.
Thank you very much for sharing all of this info with us.
It seems impossible Russia is going to give East Prussia back to the Germans, or the Czechs are going to give up territories to Germany.
History marches on and we have to deal with present day REALITY.
I am sure there are folks who dream of the restoration of the Holy Roman Empire with Istanbul abolished and the return of Constantinople.
Europeans conquered the Americas and the return of any country in the Western Hemisphere to it's original native population is not going to happen.
In the 1940's millions of Indians belonging to the Hindu religion were displaced from their homes in the Punjab, Kashmir, and what we now call Pakistan. Likewise millions of Muslims migrated to Pakistan from their homes in India.
Up to here we agree.
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Originally Posted by Clark Park
The best thing we can hope for in Israel is a two state solution involving an independent Israel and an independent Palestine, both recognizing each other's borders and sovereignty. When the day comes when rockets launched by Hamas or any other Arab terrorist group into Israel and the predictable retaliatory action by Israel no longer happens will be a most positive development.
I thought that happened when Britain hived off the Hashemite Kingdom of Transjordan from the Palestine mandate. Why should Israel be salami-sliced again?
I thought that happened when Britain hived off the Hashemite Kingdom of Transjordan from the Palestine mandate. Why should Israel be salami-sliced again?
Had nothing to do with the Jews. The British chopped off Transjordan from the Mandate as a gift to Hussein bin Ali for orchestrating the Arab Revolt of 1916. His sons got Jordan and Iraq. The British and French pretty much got free reign to do whatever they wanted in the Middle East post WW1.
The country or state to which the Germans want to return was Prussia. It doesn't exist anymore. Its lands except for those east of the Oder were given to Poland, Russia and Czechoslovakia.
As far as I know there is no ground swell for a German right to return. I've never heard of it before this thread.
The country or state to which the Germans want to return was Prussia. It doesn't exist anymore. Its lands except for those east of the Oder were given to Poland, Russia and Czechoslovakia.
You forgot Lithuania.
Also, theoretically speaking, these countries can allow the ethnic Germans from were expelled from there after World War II and their descendants to move to these countries if these ethnic Germans agree to follow and respect all of the laws of these countries.
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As far as I know there is no ground swell for a German right to return.
Of course there isn't; rather, this is an argument which some Israeli citizens (such as my parents) use to justify their opposition to allowing Palestinian refugees from 1948-1949 and their descendants to move to Israel proper.
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I've never heard of it before this thread.
OK.
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However, this does not necessarily invalidate what I said about the Zionists (or at least about some of the Zionists) only accepting the 1947 UN Partition Plan in order for them to look good in the eyes of the international community while allowing them to keep open the option of expanding their Jewish state in the future.
