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Old 08-23-2015, 02:07 PM
 
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Did the Jews have farms in Europe throughout the middle ages and pre-modern Europe? Did they engage in that industry?

I came across this article

Denmark bans kosher and halal slaughter as minister says

Denmark is banning halal and kosher slaughter.

It got me thinking. I am sure the jews had farms in the Levant during biblical times, but from Christian, and moslem domination of Europe, north africa and the near east and onwards, I wonder did the Jews also engage in agriculture. If they did not, then where does kosher come from?
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Old 08-23-2015, 04:32 PM
 
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Kosher rules are the interpretation and refinement of the dietary rules given to Moses by God. As an example the laws say you shall not boil a kid in the milk of its mother which is generally taken to mean you shouldn't mix dairy and meat products. The actual application is based not just on the text alone but its long standing interpretation. Others can likely give a better and more specific explanation.

There were Jewish farmers in the OLd World. The most obvious example being that after the partition of Poland, the Russian Empire restricted its new Jewish subjects in this area to peasant jobs of which farming was probably the most numerous.
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Old 08-23-2015, 05:38 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AuburnAL View Post
There were Jewish farmers in the OLd World. The most obvious example being that after the partition of Poland, the Russian Empire restricted its new Jewish subjects in this area to peasant jobs of which farming was probably the most numerous.
The whole history of Jewish farmers, particularly in eastern Europe was spotty at best. There were long periods where Jews were prohibited from owning land, their were prescriptions against them being even peasant farmers. On the other hand in the Ukraine there were periods when they were allowed to lease parcels for farming which is why Jews on the whole made their living in the trades, merchants, artisans, etc...

Fell across this a bit ago...

Why Jews don't farm.
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Old 08-23-2015, 06:39 PM
 
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Muslims are Kosher too. And matter of fact, Muslims RULED Europe for over 700 years. The "Dark Ages" refers to the the 700 years of history Europeans tired to wipe off the map.

http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/when-moors-ruled-europe/
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Old 08-23-2015, 08:14 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJ Brazen_3133 View Post
Did the Jews have farms in Europe throughout the middle ages and pre-modern Europe? Did they engage in that industry?
As Wise Wino mentioned, various prohibitions at various times, and probably enforced to varying degrees prohibited Jews from owning land in some regions.

There were Jewish farming settlements in the Baltics known as Shetls. These shetls may of been allowed to develop there because the Baltic nations, Finland and Poland, though part of the Russian empire were granted a certain amount of local autonomy. As a result, not all Jewish restrictions might have been applied these area, though Finland's Jewish population was very small.

As a trivia side note, The Bielski brothers Jewish resistance group (several movies have been made about them) were farmers in Polish administered Belarus. This gave them good knowledge of the forests and also good knowledge of which locals they could trust and which ones they cannot.

Last edited by Cryptic; 08-23-2015 at 08:24 PM..
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Old 08-23-2015, 08:27 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Cryptic View Post
As Wise Wino mentioned, various prohibitions at various times, and probably enforced to varying degrees prohibited Jews from owning land in some regions.

There were Jewish farming settlements in the Baltics known as Shetls. These shetls may of been allowed to develop there because the Baltic nations, Finland and Poland, though part of the Russian empire were granted a certain amount of local autonomy. As a result, not all Jewish restrictions might have been applied these area, though Finland's Jewish population was very small.

As a trivia side note, The Bielski brothers Jewish resistance group (several movies have been made about them) were farmers in Polish administered Belarus. This gave them good knowledge of the forests and also good knowledge of which locals they could trust and which ones they cannot.
Werent shtetls mostly towns though?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shtetl
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Old 08-23-2015, 08:47 PM
 
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Originally Posted by NJ Brazen_3133 View Post
Werent shtetls mostly towns though?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shtetl
It might depend on the Shtetl. Some Shtetls could well have been trade based such as leather workers, small scale manufacture of finished items (tools, locks) etc.

My impression, however, is that a good number were agricultural villages. Even in the farming ones, not all residents would have been involved in farming, but I think many would have been.
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Old 08-24-2015, 10:14 AM
 
Location: OC/LA
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Originally Posted by incognitoe View Post
Muslims are Kosher too. And matter of fact, Muslims RULED Europe for over 700 years. The "Dark Ages" refers to the the 700 years of history Europeans tired to wipe off the map.

When the Moors Ruled in Europe - Top Documentary Films
False.

And lol @ Muslims ruling Europe for 700 years. I get you're a Muslim fanboi but try to stick to the truth once in awhile.
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Old 08-24-2015, 11:41 AM
 
Location: The Ranch in Olam Haba
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Originally Posted by incognitoe View Post
Muslims are Kosher too.....
Muslims are not kosher too. Muslims will eat kosher when halal is not available. The difference between the two is when the slaughter prayer is done and who does the slaughter. Kosher Jews will not eat halal beef since only certain parts are kosher and not the entire cow.
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Old 08-24-2015, 12:04 PM
 
Location: The Ranch in Olam Haba
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Eastern European Jews were Agricultural. Their techniques allowed them to get better output out of small plots of land. They brought those techniques to the Middle East during the 1800's when Jews were allowed to own land instead of just leasing it by the Ottoman Empire. Arabs sold them large parcels of land that they thought was worthless due to either being swampy or so dry that herding couldn't be done on it. The Israelis of today eat much more vegetables than they eat meats.

Western European Jews and North African Jews made their living in the trades, merchants, etc.

If we take religion out of the mix to figure out where kosher came from 1000's of years ago, it was mostly trial and error. You had the good list and the bad list. The good list became part of their writings and kosher was born. Following kosher rules were pretty easy up to the Talmudic era arrived and created a whole set of new rules to separate Jews from everyone else.
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