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Old 09-22-2017, 11:08 AM
 
Location: The analog world
17,077 posts, read 13,358,417 times
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While it's not necessarily wrong to say that the Civil War was about slavery/states' rights, this narrative reflects the Confederacy's perspective to the exclusion of the larger issue of the United States' developing economic power in an increasingly global economy. Lincoln was playing the long game in preserving the Union. Mass = power.
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Old 09-22-2017, 11:08 AM
 
18,126 posts, read 25,269,498 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellis Bell View Post
Second, lets clarify the exclusion law of the northern states ...
What the hell does that have to do with this debate?
Typical response "The North was racist, too"

Nobody has said that people in the North were not racist or whatever
we are talking about why the South seceded, which ended up starting the civil war
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Old 09-22-2017, 11:09 AM
 
6,821 posts, read 10,512,019 times
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High school education is never meant to be the whole story about anything. Every field has a great deal more to learn for those who care to pursue it. The truth is often fairly complex and nuanced. Have fun in your studies!
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Old 09-22-2017, 11:11 AM
 
18,126 posts, read 25,269,498 times
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Originally Posted by randomparent View Post
While it's not necessarily wrong to say that the Civil War was about slavery/states' rights, this narrative reflects the Confederacy's perspective to the exclusion of the larger issue of the United States' developing economic power in an increasingly global economy. Lincoln was playing the long game in preserving the Union. Mass = power.
It wasn't about state rights.... I'll write it again


South = Pushed federal government to protect the institution of slavery (Federal fugive slave laws) = Pro-Big government
North = Passed state laws to protect the free citizens of their states (Personal freedom laws) = Pro-State rights
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Old 09-22-2017, 11:16 AM
 
Location: The analog world
17,077 posts, read 13,358,417 times
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Originally Posted by Dopo View Post
It wasn't about state rights.... I'll write it again


South = Pushed federal government to protect the institution of slavery (Federal fugive slave laws) = Pro-Big government
North = Passed state laws to protect the free citizens of their states (Personal freedom laws) = Pro-State rights
One of the issues we have as Americans is that we forget that our country does not exist in a vacuum. We both act and are acted upon by global issues well beyond our borders. We should not overlook what Bismarck was doing in Europe around the same time and how that may have affected Lincoln's actions. To say that it was simply about slavery is allowing one side to control the narrative.
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Old 09-22-2017, 11:26 AM
 
18,126 posts, read 25,269,498 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by randomparent View Post
One of the issues we have as Americans is that we forget that our country does not exist in a vacuum. We both act and are acted upon by global issues well beyond our borders. We should not overlook what Bismarck was doing in Europe around the same time and how that may have affected Lincoln's actions. To say that it was simply about slavery is allowing one side to control the narrative.
Go ahead and tell us what that is.... make your point
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Old 09-22-2017, 11:34 AM
 
Location: The analog world
17,077 posts, read 13,358,417 times
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Originally Posted by Dopo View Post
Go ahead and tell us what that is.... make your point
My point has been made. In Europe, Bismarck was busily unifying Germany. Why? Because mass = power. Secession of southern states made the United States vulnerable. Lincoln was playing a long game. It's not the whole story to say that the war was simply about slavery.
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Old 09-22-2017, 11:42 AM
 
18,126 posts, read 25,269,498 times
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Originally Posted by randomparent View Post
My point has been made. In Europe, Bismarck was busily unifying Germany. Why? Because mass = power. Secession of southern states made the United States vulnerable. Lincoln was playing a long game. It's not the whole story to say that the war was simply about slavery.
Of course the war was to "preserve the union"
What brought that about? The South seceding
Why did they secede? Because Northern States weren't complying with Federal pro-slavery laws

Put it all together = Slavery caused the civil war
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Old 09-22-2017, 11:52 AM
 
Location: The analog world
17,077 posts, read 13,358,417 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dopo View Post
Of course the war was to "preserve the union"
What brought that about? The South seceding
Why did they secede? Because Northern States weren't complying with Federal pro-slavery laws

Put it all together = Slavery caused the civil war
I'm not arguing with you about slavery being the event that kicked off the secessionist cause. I'm not arguing with you at all. My point referred to the motives for Lincoln fighting to preserve the Union in the face of secession.
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Old 09-22-2017, 12:03 PM
 
18,126 posts, read 25,269,498 times
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Originally Posted by randomparent View Post
I'm not arguing with you about slavery being the event that kicked off the secessionist cause. I'm not arguing with you at all. My point referred to the motives for Lincoln fighting to preserve the Union in the face of secession.
Agree,
exact same reason Simon Bolivar tried to make South America into one nation
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