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We often hear about how the coming of Christopher Columbus to the new world or western hemisphere brought an end to Native American ways of life and caused the enslavement of Africans. It's true that Columbus "discovering" America led to the deaths and displacement of many Native Americans and the capture of many Africans to work this land.
But it's also true that the coming of Columbus brought an end to certain harmful practices in both the Americas and Africa. Something like human sacrifice was practiced by the Aztecs. Human sacrifice was also practiced by some African cultures. As bad as the things were that came with Columbus isn't it also true that Columbus discovering America led to the end of something like Aztec human sacrifice? Not to justify slavery,but didn't many Africans through slavery avoid harmful practices that were present in their cultures like FGM(female genital mutilation),Trokosi and also human sacrifice?
So my main question is,as bad as Native American removal and African enslavement were how do we sort out the bad things that were in some Native American and African cultures that the coming of Columbus either stopped or saved people from?
Human sacrifice in some African cultures and the Trokosi practice:
Please don't try to pass off colonialism and imperialism as benevolent. All of these cultures would have worked out their issues themselves. Think of it as being a form of "states rights."
Also, don't try to imply that Europeans saved all of the brown and Black cultures from themselves. Look at the history of Europe.
Would the Aztecs still be sacrificing people today had Columbus not come? Do you have an answer for this question?
I acknowledge the bad things that came with Columbus. But I also recognize that the people and cultures of pre-Columbian America and Africa weren't so simple and were complicated.
We often hear about how the coming of Christopher Columbus to the new world or western hemisphere brought an end to Native American ways of life and caused the enslavement of Africans. It's true that Columbus "discovering" America led to the deaths and displacement of many Native Americans and the capture of many Africans to work this land.
But it's also true that the coming of Columbus brought an end to certain harmful practices in both the Americas and Africa. Something like human sacrifice was practiced by the Aztecs. Human sacrifice was also practiced by some African cultures. As bad as the things were that came with Columbus isn't it also true that Columbus discovering America led to the end of something like Aztec human sacrifice? Not to justify slavery,but didn't many Africans through slavery avoid harmful practices that were present in their cultures like FGM(female genital mutilation),Trokosi and also human sacrifice?
So my main question is,as bad as Native American removal and African enslavement were how do we sort out the bad things that were in some Native American and African cultures that the coming of Columbus either stopped or saved people from?
I don't think it's a big mystery that human sacrifice among the Aztecs ceased to exist when the Aztec empire was destroyed by the Spanish. So what's the point? Why are you seeking some sort of enumeration of positive results of the European conquest of the Americas?
Certainly, these things are part of history. And they are known, just like it is known that communists improved the literacy rate (and education in general) in most places where they took power. Saddam Hussein improved the lot of women in Iraq and vastly improved that nation's infrastructure. Mussolini made the trains run on time - supposedly.
All these things are known. But when someone says "Let's talk about all the good things Columbus/Stalin/Saddam/Mussolini did!" it sounds suspiciously like apologia.
We come bearing great gifts for you, we will save you from practices which we will teach you are offensive. All you have to do is exchange your status as a human being for your new status as property. We will be forever saving you, your family and your progeny from ever having to make those difficult choices in life, we will make them all for you.
Okay, so I sold your wife and children to another plantation hundreds of miles away...what is that compared to the gift of being at the bottom of white culture?
My question is not about finding anything positive about European domination. It's about acknowledging the not so good things that did exist in pre-Columbian America and African cultures and questioning what life would be like today in these cultures had Columbus not come to the Americas? Not that Columbus and his coming was all positive because it wasn't.
I'm not the type who believes that Columbus "brought civilization" to the Indians or that slavery "saved" Africans from the backwardness of Africa. But the reality is that even though the Aztecs and some African cultures were sophisticated in many ways they had harmful cultural and religious practices. Would these practices still be prevalent today if Columbus hadn't come and disrupted some of these practices?
I just think the history of all of this is more complicated and complex than some want to acknowledge. Yes American slavery was bad but so were the practices of human sacrifice,FGM and trokosi that could be found in the cultures of the Americas and Africa.
Here's a song by the Last Poets that kinda influenced my question.
This song reflects the view that the world in the Americas and Africa were perfect before Columbus and the white man came. But they don't seem to acknowledge that not everything was perfect in these cultures before the white man came.
Two points: l think history has shown that human sacrifice falls out of favor eventually. Something seems to make it unpopular or considered ineffective or a new religion takes hold or a new benevolent ruler makes it taboo. The Aztecs were unpopular conquerors and only the latest in a long list of cultures in that region. Who knows what the next rising culture would be known for...maybe worse. The Mayans decapitated some prisoners in a ritual bloodletting before the Aztecs came to power. The Spanish Inquisition wasn’t all fun and games, either.
Secondly, I don’t think that it should be taboo or somehow socially prohibited to have an objective discussion or investigation of the positive or negative impacts of colonial domination. Columbus didn’t intend to wipe out millions of people nor did the Wright brothers intend to create a weapon delivery vehicle that would someday drop an atomic bomb. An objective questioning of the motives of those that followed Columbus or any explorer or missionaries or soldiers or even pharmaceutical company reps should be fair game. Some might be cogs in a wheel turning well beyond their control. That’s not to say that the consequences were not horrendous.
Would the Aztecs still be sacrificing people today had Columbus not come? Do you have an answer for this question?
I acknowledge the bad things that came with Columbus. But I also recognize that the people and cultures of pre-Columbian America and Africa weren't so simple and were complicated.
Probably not, Israelites/Hebrew people used to preform animal sacrifices, as far as I'm aware, Jews don't do that anymore, and certainly not Christians that stem from them. So it's quite conceivable that it would of ended eventually. Also the Aztec empire probably would've collapsed eventually, just like other Mesoamerican civilizations such as the Mayans and Olmec's.
Unrelated, but here is a quote of a conquistador after conquering the Inca empire.
I wish Your Majesty to understand the motive that moves me to make this statement is the peace of my conscience and because of the guilt I share. For we have destroyed by our evil behavior such a government as was enjoyed by these natives. They were so free of crime and greed, both men and women, that they could leave gold or silver worth a hundred thousand pesos in their open house. So that when they discovered that we were thieves and men who sought to force their wives and daughters to commit sin with them, they despised us. But now things have come to such a pass in offence of God, owing to the bad example we have set them in all things, that these natives from doing no evil have turned into people who can do no good.. I beg God to pardon me, for I am moved to say this, seeing that I am the last to die of the Conquistadors."
Columbus..I just think the history of all of this is more complicated and complex than some want to acknowledge..
Leftists & cultural-Marxists aren't interested in complexities & paradoxes of Western history.. Their ideological objective is to dismantle Western civilization. Their prevailing strategy (currently) seems to be dismantling Western heroes (like Columbus). When u take a part a culture's heroes, it disintegrates their cultural strength & confidence.
Leftists have no interest in the comprehensive history of Columbus' voyages. You can see that just in the first page of this thread, any appreciation of Columbus (even tempered, or backhanded) is unacceptable to their world view. Columbus (as a foundational creator of the Western New World) has to be presented as a worthless villain, in order to prove the West is start-to-finish evil.
Trust, the posts in this thread will be solely condemning the perceived sins of Columbus (& the perceived sins of your original post), ignoring any sins of Caribbean Indians, and then praise/defense of Columbus will lead to a thread lock. It's a shame, because I submit Columbus is the most significant explorer in all of recorded human history. But he is headed for permanent & disgraced banishment from Western history. So neither fans, or critics, will ultimately have objective access to his full life story..
Last edited by Babe_Ruth; 01-13-2018 at 11:48 PM..
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