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Before modern anti counterfeiting measures what did people, and civilizations use as everyday currency for small ticket items/services?
I have heard Romans used salt, hence the phrase, "worth his salt". Is this true? What can our ancestors possibly use. Parchment, or cloth with designs is probably not a good idea because counterfeiting be too easy. Same for metal coins with insignia.
It has to be some rare earth metal, or something with properties that cannot be copied like gold and silver. But there is not enough of that for everyday small ticket items/services.
Is this where jewelry comes in? Is that the utility of rubies, gems, cubic zirconiums, diamonds, pearls, sapphire, topaz, once provided. I never understood why jewelry has any worth.
How did ancient, and medievel people pay for a dinner at a tavern, or a brothel, or ferry ride?
Before modern anti counterfeiting measures what did people, and civilizations use as everyday currency for small ticket items/services?
I have heard Romans used salt, hence the phrase, "worth his salt". Is this true? What can our ancestors possibly use. Parchment, or cloth with designs is probably not a good idea because counterfeiting be too easy. Same for metal coins with insignia.
It has to be some rare earth metal, or something with properties that cannot be copied like gold and silver. But there is not enough of that for everyday small ticket items/services.
Is this where jewelry comes in? Is that the utility of rubies, gems, cubic zirconiums, diamonds, pearls, sapphire, topaz, once provided. I never understood why jewelry has any worth.
How did ancient, and medievel people pay for a dinner at a tavern, or a brothel, or ferry ride?
Credit, barter and currency were the three methods used in the American colonial era and in most of the south prior to the Civil War. Until the mint was built in Charlotte (1835), coinage was rare in the south. For an analysis which might apply further back in time:
In addition to gold and silver, the ancients used small copper and bronze coins for small purchases. Compared to the value, it was probably too labor intensive to counterfeit these small denomination coins, and the penalty was just as high. Counterfeiting was a very real problem, and I believe that silver coins were the most counterfeited. The penalty for counterfeiting depended on the counterfeiter's social status and ranged from banishment/exile to execution, with a few unpleasant (and fatal) options in between.
Yes, coins have been in existence in more advanced civilizations since B.C. even before times of Ancient Rome. I don't know about the origination of "worth his salt" but the Roman Empire did indeed have coins that were used throughout the empire, again originating BC, both worth it's weight in gold or silver, or, as the Roman Empire was dying, used as fiat money (I read this just recently, they were forged as iron and only covered with a thin layer of sliver or gold circa 400 AD). In the outer edges of the empire probably the barter system was still in use.
And paper money (again fiat money) was popular in China as early as the first millennium (1000 AD or so). I saw examples in the Shanghai museum were they had a full room devoted to ancient usage of money, including these ancient "dollar bills". The interesting thing is, not only that they were using paper money so early, but it showed the ups and down of China as it fell to periods of conflict and infighting - there were some decades and centuries where no money was minted at all in China, showing the collapse of the economy. Then of course the economy fell back to the barter system. When things became more stable a few decades later money was minted again.
Jewelry, i.e. ornaments displayed on ones body, on the other hand has been around since the stone age. Earlier than any recorded history obviously.
Before modern anti counterfeiting measures what did people, and civilizations use as everyday currency for small ticket items/services?
I have heard Romans used salt, hence the phrase, "worth his salt". Is this true? What can our ancestors possibly use. Parchment, or cloth with designs is probably not a good idea because counterfeiting be too easy. Same for metal coins with insignia.
It has to be some rare earth metal, or something with properties that cannot be copied like gold and silver. But there is not enough of that for everyday small ticket items/services.
Is this where jewelry comes in? Is that the utility of rubies, gems, cubic zirconiums, diamonds, pearls, sapphire, topaz, once provided. I never understood why jewelry has any worth.
How did ancient, and medievel people pay for a dinner at a tavern, or a brothel, or ferry ride?
There was coinage. The first coins were minted in 600 BC. (Google is your friend.) Prior to that, gold, silver, gemstones and semi-precious stones were used, as well as barter. A herder might pay for cloth or cookware with meat or a skin from one of his animals, for example. I was also told, that the slim ivory sticks with black dots on them to indicate numbers, that are part of antique mah jongg sets, were at some point in China's past used as currency. (They're used like poker chips, for those who play the game for gambling.) I don't know if that's true or not.
It's said, that Genghis Khan invented paper money, to enable the transport of money across the vast distances of his empire without weighing down the horses too much. No reports on whether counterfeiting accompanied that invention.
Yes, coins have been in existence in more advanced civilizations since B.C. even before times of Ancient Rome. I don't know about the origination of "worth his salt" but the Roman Empire did indeed have coins that were used throughout the empire, again originating BC, both worth it's weight in gold or silver, or, as the Roman Empire was dying, used as fiat money (I read this just recently, they were forged as iron and only covered with a thin layer of sliver or gold circa 400 AD). In the outer edges of the empire probably the barter system was still in use.
And paper money (again fiat money) was popular in China as early as the first millennium (1000 AD or so). I saw examples in the Shanghai museum were they had a full room devoted to ancient usage of money, including these ancient "dollar bills". The interesting thing is, not only that they were using paper money so early, but it showed the ups and down of China as it fell to periods of conflict and infighting - there were some decades and centuries where no money was minted at all in China, showing the collapse of the economy. Then of course the economy fell back to the barter system. When things became more stable a few decades later money was minted again.
Jewelry, i.e. ornaments displayed on ones body, on the other hand has been around since the stone age. Earlier than any recorded history obviously.
I can't much to your excellent post. However, in the National Archaeological Museum in Naples, Italy is an amazing collection of Roman artifacts. Many of them were taken from the ruins at Pompeii and are displayed in the museum. There are many coins.
In ancient times, one of the ways that some Kings would raise money from their subjects would be to periodically call on everyone to bring in their old coins so that they could be melted down and newly minted. Coinage would than be debased by adding other metals than silver and the King would take 10,000 coins brought in by his citizens and by adding cheap metals, they would cast 12,000 coins. The King would return 10,000 coins to his subjects and keep 2,000 for himself. I guess that was the beginning of the term "fiat money".
Credit, barter and currency were the three methods used in the American colonial era and in most of the south prior to the Civil War. Until the mint was built in Charlotte (1835), coinage was rare in the south. For an analysis which might apply further back in time:
I am more asking about what raw tangible material did they use as the physical currency.
Quote:
Originally Posted by joe from dayton
In addition to gold and silver, the ancients used small copper and bronze coins for small purchases. Compared to the value, it was probably too labor intensive to counterfeit these small denomination coins, and the penalty was just as high. Counterfeiting was a very real problem, and I believe that silver coins were the most counterfeited. The penalty for counterfeiting depended on the counterfeiter's social status and ranged from banishment/exile to execution, with a few unpleasant (and fatal) options in between.
But copper, and bronze must have been very common. They must have put some kind of insignia to denote face value on these coins. If not, then they may as well just trade raw nuggets of bronze or copper. What about brass did they use brass?
If the value of the metals are higher than what it is buying, then the buyers are losing money. You are given up something more valuable than receiving.
Yes, coins have been in existence in more advanced civilizations since B.C. even before times of Ancient Rome. I don't know about the origination of "worth his salt" but the Roman Empire did indeed have coins that were used throughout the empire, again originating BC, both worth it's weight in gold or silver, or, as the Roman Empire was dying, used as fiat money (I read this just recently, they were forged as iron and only covered with a thin layer of sliver or gold circa 400 AD). In the outer edges of the empire probably the barter system was still in use.
And paper money (again fiat money) was popular in China as early as the first millennium (1000 AD or so). I saw examples in the Shanghai museum were they had a full room devoted to ancient usage of money, including these ancient "dollar bills". The interesting thing is, not only that they were using paper money so early, but it showed the ups and down of China as it fell to periods of conflict and infighting - there were some decades and centuries where no money was minted at all in China, showing the collapse of the economy. Then of course the economy fell back to the barter system. When things became more stable a few decades later money was minted again.
Jewelry, i.e. ornaments displayed on ones body, on the other hand has been around since the stone age. Earlier than any recorded history obviously.
They could not have used gold or silver for small ticket purchases.
Paper money back then would have been easy to rip off. That must have been a terrible choice.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth
There was coinage. The first coins were minted in 600 BC. (Google is your friend.) Prior to that, gold, silver, gemstones and semi-precious stones were used, as well as barter. A herder might pay for cloth or cookware with meat or a skin from one of his animals, for example. I was also told, that the slim ivory sticks with black dots on them to indicate numbers, that are part of antique mah jongg sets, were at some point in China's past used as currency. (They're used like poker chips, for those who play the game for gambling.) I don't know if that's true or not.
It's said, that Genghis Khan invented paper money, to enable the transport of money across the vast distances of his empire without weighing down the horses too much. No reports on whether counterfeiting accompanied that invention.
Quote:
Originally Posted by markg91359
I can't much to your excellent post. However, in the National Archaeological Museum in Naples, Italy is an amazing collection of Roman artifacts. Many of them were taken from the ruins at Pompeii and are displayed in the museum. There are many coins.
In ancient times, one of the ways that some Kings would raise money from their subjects would be to periodically call on everyone to bring in their old coins so that they could be melted down and newly minted. Coinage would than be debased by adding other metals than silver and the King would take 10,000 coins brought in by his citizens and by adding cheap metals, they would cast 12,000 coins. The King would return 10,000 coins to his subjects and keep 2,000 for himself. I guess that was the beginning of the term "fiat money".
I am mostly asking about what kind of raw material they would have used. They had no technology, so the raw material is most important. It must be chosen wisely.
Gold has been the monetary measure for a few thousand years.
Lately, it's the "Bitcoin" that is the yardstick...
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