Quote:
Originally Posted by BobNJ1960
I have always felt Germany should have ceased to exist at the end of WWII, as the price of its depravity. It should have been parceled out at end of war, with German non Jewish citizens 16 or older at start of atrocities (I'd place start as Kristallnacht) , forbidden to ever vote again, no matter where they lived.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BugsyPal
If it weren't for the imperative (presumed or otherwise) to contain Stalin, Russia and communism
things likely would have been much worse for Germany post WWII.
Morgenthau (one of the few Jews in Roosevelt's administration or cabinet) wanted to see Germany suffer on same level or worse than Treaty of Versailles. Calmer heads soon prevailed in realizing the errors of those actions and believed if (west) Germans were treated so badly by allies they'd welcome Stalin/Russia like conquering heroes. Then Russia would have her hooks into Europe up to border with France and so forth. That just couldn't be allowed to happen.
If you believe Germans and Austrians for that matter, then and still now they believe have suffered and paid their dues.
On an actual score of those committing heinous war crimes actually being punished, not a bit of it.
Yes, both in Nuremberg, Russia and maybe some other places trials were held, and yes good number were either executed or imprisoned for their crimes, in reality those numbers were a drop in bucket.
Some German military involved with Babyn Yar massacre were tried, convicted and either executed or imprisoned by Russia, but again actual numbers pale in comparison to those involved. You can see some recorded footage of trails in links above.
By late 1950's into 1960's France, Germany and other countries in Europe were passing general amnesty or otherwise letting what small numbers of those imprisoned for war crimes set free. Russia IIRC wasn't so willing to forgive and forget, so German POWs or those otherwise being held didn't often have such lucky escapes.
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Opposing the Soviets was an imperative at the end of the war, but so was rebuilding Europe. What many do not understand is the degree to which the economies of the European countries were connected. Tearing Germany apart or preventing its resurgence as an industrial power not only would have dragged Germany down it would have severely hurt neighboring countries as well. Germany was a modern industrialized country that produced steel, automobiles, and machines. The destruction of its industrial plant during the war was harmful to all of Europe, not just Germany. Rebuilding that industrial plant was a critical factor in restoring the entire European economy.
The Morgenthau Plan was devised by a justifiably angry man who was more interested in punishing Germany for its sins than he was in getting Europe back on its feet. It simply wasn't practical if we wanted to keep Europe from drifting towards the communists.
I think history has played out in a way that demonstrated that we made the right decision in helping Germany get back on its feet by burying the Morgenthau Plan and instead developing the Marshall Plan. By the mid-1950's Germany had made great strides and the other European countries were coming back too. Perhaps, more importantly though, the German people on their own have demonstrated their rejection of nazism through the creation of one of the most strongest democratic governments on earth. Totalitarianism has no future in Germany because the German people learned a lesson as a result of their defeat and the postwar administration of their country by the allies. Also, the division of Germany into two zones (one Soviet controlled) may have ultimately been positive as well in the sense it showed the German people what the "fruits of war" were.
Tradeoffs had to be made. However, the correct decisions were made at the end of the war.
The American people through their actions following the war demonstrated we were perhaps the most generous victors in a war that have ever existed. I think sometimes what we Americans overlook is the power of our own example. I think our occupation of parts of Germany gave the German people an opportunity to closely observe us. While we were not perfect I think many Germans realized through our example that emulating Americans in many respects would produce a better society that the one they had. Our example was far more effective in reforming Germany than punishing Germans would have been.
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