Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Hi all. I am looking to do a full kitchen reno. I met with the first designer this morning. It didn't go as I expected, so maybe I'm confused on what to expect. The designer spent less than an hour, never really asked any questions; I offered as much info as came to mind. Never asked to see all the pages of interest of things I pulled out from magazines. When designer left, I had no clue if this designer would even be a good fit, had any ideas on what I wanted, etc etc. I did make it clear that I was looking for a design only at this stage. When I asked about help with fixture choices, etc., designer said they only provide those suggestions if we go with them for construction piece. To me, I would think things like faucets, etc are part of the design. Would really appreciate if someone could enlighten me on what to expect on an initial designer visit? How can I tell if a designer is a good fit before I put down bucks for the actual design? Thanks.
Fixture choice is rarely discussed in detail until a lot more critical things are determined. I have done several kitchen remodels both on my own and with professionals. The best professionals that I have worked with, from our initial meeting, emphasize the trade-offs in an every choice. The appropriate context for even a "cost no object" kitchen renovation is what CONSTRAINTS are there on the project -- time, site, schedule, family consideration are ALWAYS good areas to cover at the initial meeting AS WELL AS BUDGET. Whether you really don't care if the project cost 30x what the house is worth OR have only the ability to spend about 5% of the homes value both you and the designer NEED to be on the same page about that.
It is good that you have an "idea book" but if the designer you met with DID NOT EVEN LOOK AT IT I would probably recomend crossing this person off your list. On the other hand if you the designer perceived a mismatch between how they prefer to work and how you came across maybe they won't be contacting you. It has to a little like a "first date" and if you and they are too far apart things probably won't work out. One firm that I have used before has an absolutely fantastic fully certified kitchen designer that does gorgeous work but her personality is such that they NEVER send her out on a first meeting w/o a more congenial staffer as she has almost a freakish ability to "get" exactly what the client asked for AND enhance it with her own genuis BUT she rarely gives an outward indication that she so much as hears the client as she measures stuff out, scribbles notes and asks seemingly mindless question about how likely that they clients will want the same fuel for the stove and oven or often they get carry out pizza for the kids. Her genuis comes from having a mental catalog of exactly what appliances and cabinets will fit the kind of lifestyle cues that she picks up from these casual questions. Meanwhile the other employee can talk about things like the details of joinery and such...
If the designer that you met with wants you to committ to them and only them before you see what their capabilities are then I would assume he or she has an extensive portfolio that covers a wide range of styles and price points and includes a whole lot of glowing testimonials from very satisfied repeat clients. That of course may also come with a very much "no input required or wanted" set of ground rules too and even if the designer really is that good a whole lot of folks like to be more involved...
Once you met with a few more potential designers you will have a better sense for who will best be able to assist you.
When I have an initial consult with a client, I look at it as a fact finding mission.
I am rather appalled that the designer didnt even look at your idea book, I always request clients do that before I meet with them.
I do believe I would find myself another designer.
It sounds to me like the designer was giving you the cold shoulder. I've seen people do this and I've had it happen to me with various trades. For whatever reason, the person decides very early on in the interview that this is not a job they want to take on and they become cold and distant in their interaction with you until the painful meeting eventually draws to a close. Did she seem like she was trying to get out of there as fast as possible? If so, she probably was. Personally, I think its better for ones business that they be up front and honest with a potential client if they decide not to take the job, and they disclose their reasons respectfully and without judgement; but not everyone is mature enough to handle that sort of honesty. So in retrospect, I'd say you dodged a bullet.
If she really wants your business, she'll follow up with you by phone within 2-3 days from the meeting. My guess is she will/has not. Now, since she wasn't straight with you you can only guess why she bailed. If you sensed a change in her body language at a particular point in your conversation, think about what was said just before that.
I would think that your only wanting design work might be a point that would make some designers cautious, especially if combined with a comment about having a very low budget. Again, I think that a good designer explains these roadblocks clearly and with respect, educating the client about why an unreasonably low budget won't work.
The designer may be struggling to stay afloat in this bad economy and may be stressed over the idea of having to choose between taking a job that will pay them less or giving up the smaller job and waiting for a better job to come along. I'm not justifying, I still think the designer you met with handled the meeting poorly, but I sensed from your description that they may have ditched.
Question for you, why design services only? For some, this is a legitimate request, but some clients are looking to get free services. If a designer senses that there will be significant money and budget issues, they will seek the nearest exit. Before your next meeting have ready a clear explanation of why you only need design services and not a complete project.
thank you all for your feedback and info. chet, lol on the 'first date' thing. before he left, i had pretty much decided i did not want a second date. but i wanted to check to see if my expectations were too high and perhaps i needed to be levelset on those expectations. if i could design the kitchen myself i would attempt, but it is too complex for me to handle even if i had the time. i failed the first time around. a non-load bearing wall is coming down but it will still be a small footprint that will need to be jam packed. the w/d stays as well as the powder room. 3 entry doors and 3 windows. as i think about some of your responses, and reflect on how the meeting went, maybe it would have been too complex for him too!
i am trying to determine what would be best for us. payoff mortgage and re-do kitchen and some other remaining projects and stay or sell and move to a smaller house, but it takes a lot of effort and motivation to move. neither i have a lot of right now.
why design services only? a couple of reasons - don't know if i'll implement due to the above decision that needs to be made. another major reason is that i was burnt by the designer i worked with on a bath reno. it was painful to pay off that credit card. so i don't want to commit for more until i'm sure of the integrity of the individual. i was forthcoming in my first reason to the designer both in an email and in person. in an intro email to several designers, i explained my situation, my need for a design only, age of house, and my timeframe for completion of design. i would think if designer could not handle any of those things, they would not have replied/responded.
should the designer i work with on the design work out, i won't have a problem purchasing materials from them or i can go out and get them on my own. doubt if it will make a difference in what i pay out of pocket, just who i pay it to. not sure at this time how i'll know, since i didn't have any reservations at the time of hire about the designer who burnt us.
i have money but no budget yet. that's what i'm trying to determine. it won't be a 100K+ budget with viking or wolf; the neighborhood cannot justify it. it won't be a low end budget; neighborhood cannot justify that either. i know what the market values are now and what they were during high selling times. if we stay, i'll want the kitchen i want...within reason.
i'm in business for myself so i wasn't looking for any freebies. my initial email mentioned, including discussion of design fees at meeting.
question about fixtures may come into play later, but i was trying to determine what i would be included/covered in design fees.
from all feedback and my intuition, i guess it was that higher power telling me that a 2nd date wasn't necessary since this designer was not 'the one'. i'll just march on. thanks all.
First I think that before anyone does any kind of "major" renovation (as opposed to just cosmetic updates) of a costly room (like kitchen or bath...) it is very smart to cross shop existing homes that may have the features you want. Of course moving is a hassle but don't forget that unlike on HGTV shoes any major renovation is likely to result MANY weeks of living w/o a functional kitchen or bath. The various trades rarely will work in other than a loosely meshed schedule and some days nothing will really look like progress. It may very well be smarter to list your home and move to one that has more feature that meet your needs.
Secondly I can completely the "once burned, twice shy" approach given past bad experience but I really don't think that you will be able to get the best results unless you get over that reluctance and decide on how to proceed if you are fully committed to a major overhaul of your kitchen. The best results mean not just something that looks good and works for the way you use your space BUT ALSO a cost effective and time efficent project. Any decent designer is going to have a relationship with qualified contractors and suppliers. The "total package" that includes all those things is pretty much without exception a better value than the "ala carte" price you get from tradespeople that have a whole different relationship with a homeowner for a "one off" project, suppliers that will be able to pass on a whole of the overhead that they take on with "retail customers" vs the "near wholesale" prices that they give to their professional clients and most importantly the "oversight and on-site supervision" that professional remodelers provide to keep the project moving toward a timely completion.
I didn't mean to give the wrong impression. I've been a licensed realtor for many years so u know I've seen my fair share of kitchens. (Un)fortunately, once one wears that hat it is hard not to look at property values.
Despite being burnt, I still see the value in using designers. I just learn from each experience in life and hope not to repeat the same mistake. I used a GC who took care of the tradesmen and GC ran a tight ship. Only downtime was christmas day and weekends. Full work days, not bankers hours. Time is money. I felt for some reason, to be 'fair', I gave many of finish materials like kohler products, tile, lighting, etc to designer. I brought designer in to pull my choices together (round or square sink?), I had already done the legwork and retail pricing on my decisions. Actually, letting designer take care of those things, did cost me more because I could have used GC discount but price difference wasnt going to kill me. Different economy then. I felt at the time it was the 'fair' thing to do. Everyone has to eat and I am a big supporter of independents.
Question about cabinetry. More cabinets in kitchen than in a bath. In previous reno, i took care of cabinetry. I think I got something like 45% off list price. When ordered thru a designer, am I paying list price? That may be a deal breaker for me. Can anyone enlighten me? Thanks
I didn't mean to give the wrong impression. I've been a licensed realtor for many years so u know I've seen my fair share of kitchens. (Un)fortunately, once one wears that hat it is hard not to look at property values.
Despite being burnt, I still see the value in using designers. I just learn from each experience in life and hope not to repeat the same mistake. I used a GC who took care of the tradesmen and GC ran a tight ship. Only downtime was christmas day and weekends. Full work days, not bankers hours. Time is money. I felt for some reason, to be 'fair', I gave many of finish materials like kohler products, tile, lighting, etc to designer. I brought designer in to pull my choices together (round or square sink?), I had already done the legwork and retail pricing on my decisions. Actually, letting designer take care of those things, did cost me more because I could have used GC discount but price difference wasnt going to kill me. Different economy then. I felt at the time it was the 'fair' thing to do. Everyone has to eat and I am a big supporter of independents.
Question about cabinetry. More cabinets in kitchen than in a bath. In previous reno, i took care of cabinetry. I think I got something like 45% off list price. When ordered thru a designer, am I paying list price? That may be a deal breaker for me. Can anyone enlighten me? Thanks
I'm a bit confused about what you are asking here. First, its up to the designer to decide about their billing practices which should be fully disclosed before any contract is signed. Some designers charge you MSRP on products but do the design work for free, others bill for design work and pass along products to you at cost + x% (x being 10-20% typically). I'm not sure why you used a designer but paid full retail before where you ran around and got the prices for them. That is part of what a designer does. So I'm not sure what circumstance you were in where you were taking on that role.
Why not hire a GC that has a licensed designer on staff?
For bath Reno, I didn't plan to hire a designer; layout was going to remain as was. I had many many years to think about what I wanted while saving for it. When I got stuck on flooring and other things is when I decided to hire a designer. Went thru design process with designer. Turned out she was an inch short on entry door wall. I was not open to changing door size since I wanted door uniformity from the hall, which required GC to do install a bit differently.
The GC I had used for that project was an independent contractor. Guess he did his own designs. I went with him because I knew the quality of his work and knew the project would not sit. That was going to be the last time that bath got re-done.
Thank u, I'll make sure I pay attn or ask specifically about cabinetry billing practice. So far all the designers I have spoken to charge for design services (some fees were based on complexity or size). Some said design fees would be credited back if they got the entire project or something along those lines.
Last edited by margarets1; 07-13-2012 at 04:09 PM..
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
