Cabinet quotes - which is better? (how much, granite countertops, dishwasher, Lowes)

[kimchee]

So far I got several quotes for my cabinets and I'm torn! Should I get more quotes?

So far, I got these quotes for 17 cabinets (includes 2 lazy susans):

- $5500 for KraftMaid cabinets from wholesaler (maple, particle board, all metal glides and soft close)

- $6000 at Lowes for Diamond cabinets (somewhat below Kraftmaid quality)

- $9000 for Starmark cabinets from wholesaler (3/4 plywood all around, cherry wood with dark stain, soft close, undermount glide, hardware included)

Should I get more quotes? I love the Starmark cabinets but don't know if I should spend that much more considering this may not be a forever home for me.

TIA!

[desertsun41]

Originally Posted by kimchee

So far I got several quotes for my cabinets and I'm torn! Should I get more quotes?

So far, I got these quotes for 17 cabinets (includes 2 lazy susans):

- $5500 for KraftMaid cabinets from wholesaler (maple, particle board, all metal glides and soft close)

- $6000 at Lowes for Diamond cabinets (somewhat below Kraftmaid quality)

- $9000 for Starmark cabinets from wholesaler (3/4 plywood all around, cherry wood with dark stain, soft close, undermount glide, hardware included)

Should I get more quotes? I love the Starmark cabinets but don't know if I should spend that much more considering this may not be a forever home for me.

TIA!

Those quotes are almost meaningless because you are not comparing apples to apples. You have a bid for Kraftmaid for $5500. There are 33 price levels for Kraftmaid. How could I know which one you got?

And if Lowes or Home Dipshid quoted you then you are quoted about 50% higher then anyone else would have so that don't count.

Starmark used to be a very cheap basic brand. Though their quality has improved big time, it is in no way worth $3500 more then Kraftmaid though. Unless you got the cheapest Kraftmaid money can buy and the most expensive Starmark money can buy. But if you did that then no sense in comparing because there is no comparison.

The way you get estimates is to put out for bid the exact identical layout and description what should be included for that plan. Example: Here is the layout and in it shall be cherry wood, paprika color, plywood upgrade sides, undermount soft close guides with upgraded drawer cores, 3" crown, pull out trays, raised panel doors..........etc. Now everyone is bidding on the same exact thing.

What good is comparing different wood species, different finishes, different construction methods and on and on.

Sorry to tear your question apart but if I don't then your bank account will be torn apart.

[chet everett]

To help clarify -- the Toyota corporation makes dozens of four door sedans, from the Echo that is under $15k to the LS460 which is over $70k. While some are obviously larger many are very very similar -- Camry, Avalon and ES350 are all off the same platform with major differences in how much the manufacturer puts into things like sound isolation and interior luxury.

If you then "compare" all those products to "a Ford product" we would not know if you are talking about bargain prices Focus, a midrange Fusion, a Taurus, one of the alphabet Lincoln's or perhaps one of the crossovers/ SUVS...


Frankly the manufacturers and the big box seem to go out of their way to create a matrix of "subbrands" and options / upgrades that is extremely hard to compare. This makes it much more likely that consumers will not have an accurate basis of to cross shop and end up either over paying or getting far less than they could have -- the low end cabinets and drawers from all the big firms come with unattractive and insubstantial construction. They won't hold up as well as the better prodicts. Some manufactures know this and have spun-off their worst stuff into "private label" type offerings so that the shame of cabinets falling apart after a few years does not reflect so poorly on the core brand. The better specialized kitchen cabinet dealers know this and won't carry the low end stuff but the big box stores are only too happy to fleece unsuspecting dupes...

[kimchee]

Valid points guys, shopping for kitchen cabinets IS really like shopping for a car... so many brands and so many lines within each brand! The problem with shopping for cabinets is each dealer only carry a certain selection of cabinet brands and lines...

I'm really not picky about what brand or line I get as long as it's quality material and both the Kraftmaid and Starmark cabinets are saw are pretty good stuff.

Guess, it's time for this novice to go out to price out more cabinets! I'll be sure to stay away from big box stores too!

Thanks.

[darstar]

Kraftmaid was my choice , via Lowes. I was not happy with the after problems, but they did correct a lot.Still , I know I paid too much .. The " line" of Modern cabinets I bought for 10,000 they no longer make or support..... I know it requires more work, but fewer headaches and cost, is to buy from IKEA, I could have saved 5,000 and still had a good product, its just that I would have to put it all together as they are flat pack , as is most everything in my modern home.
The bottom line is do not buy from a big box store, they have a huge profit built in. You would be much better off using a local down the road cabinet maker......but , he can be expensive depending on how detailed you want. It is like buying a car. These days and how houses deflate in value ,, I would go IKEA , hands down.

[Chrisk327]

Originally Posted by desertsun41

Those quotes are almost meaningless because you are not comparing apples to apples. You have a bid for Kraftmaid for $5500. There are 33 price levels for Kraftmaid. How could I know which one you got?

And if Lowes or Home Dipshid quoted you then you are quoted about 50% higher then anyone else would have so that don't count.

Starmark used to be a very cheap basic brand. Though their quality has improved big time, it is in no way worth $3500 more then Kraftmaid though. Unless you got the cheapest Kraftmaid money can buy and the most expensive Starmark money can buy. But if you did that then no sense in comparing because there is no comparison.

The way you get estimates is to put out for bid the exact identical layout and description what should be included for that plan. Example: Here is the layout and in it shall be cherry wood, paprika color, plywood upgrade sides, undermount soft close guides with upgraded drawer cores, 3" crown, pull out trays, raised panel doors..........etc. Now everyone is bidding on the same exact thing.

What good is comparing different wood species, different finishes, different construction methods and on and on.

Sorry to tear your question apart but if I don't then your bank account will be torn apart.

I know you have your opinion on the big box stores, and partially due to your profession.... However, the pricing from the big box stores is not 50% more than independant dealers in my area. Prices seem on par with similar options at least for Kraftmaid when i was shopping. Now, I'm not sure I would buy from them even if they were a little cheaper, but they are certianly not rip off pricing.

The OP should decide on what items they want regarding doors, drawer glides, cabinet construction. It still ends up being tough to get true apples to apples comparisons since one dealer or cabinet line may have a different baseline cabinet/drawerglide than the others, and depending on promotions, you may do a free plywood upgrade on one brand where you were fine with particle board sides. I would get the quotes as close to apples to apples as possible for the ones you are still considering and pick one to either go with, or if you still think the price is high, shop a few dealers. I personally think shopping for cabinets is a very difficult experience, partially in part due to the way the industry prices, as well as how some of the salespeople behave. Some places want to lock you in and get a depost before you get any pricing, some are willing to give pricing and tell you that 30% off list is a "good" price (it isn't), some are incompetant. We found 2 in our searches that knew what they were doing and 1 of those was a trade only place.

[duster1979]

I used to manage the cabinet department at a "big box" home improvement store (not Lowe's or HD). Based on my experience I would not hesitate to buy cabinetry there. They should all offer a full range of quality choices, and in an apples-to-apples comparison they will usually be slightly loees expensive than the competition. Because they do so much business with their vendors they often are able to get better service on warranty issues, as well. The only real downside is that there is a higher likelihood of being served by someone with limited product knowledge.

I used to think that plywood was the only way to go, but I've changed my views on that. You have to be a little more gentle with furniture board during installation, but once they are in place there isn't much that can go wrong; so if I were on a budget I wouldn't have a problem with using furniture board cabinets in most places and using the savings for feature upgrades such as slide-outs. I would want a plywood box for my sink base and for any cabinets that a water line ran through on the way to an icemaker or a dishwasher because moisture is hell on furniture board. I'd also consider plywood ends on any end cabinet in a position where they could get hit hard.

Don't look at anything that doesn't included solid wood face frames, doors, and drawers.

If you get full-extension drawer glides make sure they come with the soft close feature; most automatically will, but some have to be added as another option. Reason being, full extension glides pull the drawer back in really fast and if you don't have the soft close a finger can easily get grabbed.

You mentioned one of your quotes had 3/4" plywood sides. This is overkill unless you are going with concrete countertops, or granite of faux granite countertops with frameless cabinets. 1/2" plywood is plenty sturdy for anything else.

Be sure to confirm how the exposed ends will be finished. Some companies' standard "finished" ends are covered with a really cheesy laminate that looks like woodgrain shelf paper that doesn't match the cabinet finish at all.

I loved selling cabinets, there was just something about taking somebody's chicken-scratch notes from the back of an envelope and turning it into a kitchen design then seeing the look on their faces when you showed them the 3-D image of their new kitchen that would make the day seem better.

[desertsun41]

Originally Posted by Chrisk327

I know you have your opinion on the big box stores, and partially due to your profession.... However, the pricing from the big box stores is not 50% more than independant dealers in my area. Prices seem on par with similar options at least for Kraftmaid when i was shopping. Now, I'm not sure I would buy from them even if they were a little cheaper, but they are certianly not rip off pricing.

.

You live in Long Island. Yes indeed Home shidpod charges full list price or MSRP. There is zero variation in pricing among any orange store in all of north America. Their planogram is the same and their price book is the same.

My profession is not the reason I look at the big orange who only wants your little green as a rip off. They are not my competition. I love when customers bring me a HD bid. I know I have a sale. Rather my profession affords me the knowledge as to who sells what and for how much.

Like retail product, there is a wholesale price which dealers buy for and a MSRP price which is manufacturers suggested retail price. Off the home improvement subject, Your Macy's, Dillards, etc will sell for MSRP. Your Target, Marshalls etc sell for something less then MSRP. My best example are jewelry stores who all have banners advertising 50, 60, 70 and even 80% off list price. How can they do that? Because jewelry is the biggest consumer rip off there is. Jewelry dealers buy for about 10 cents on a dollar so they can sell for 80% off and still make bank.

Just be a smart consumer. Do your research. Compare apples to apples.

[kimchee]

Thanks everyone for your feedback and advice.

Desertsun41, I've been following your threads for awhile now and used an NKBA designer to design my kitchen. I'm so glad I did because I wanted to gut renovate my kitchen and bathroom and she gave me several layouts that I would never have come up with on my own.

I'm also going to visit Kuiken Brothers in NJ for another cabinet estimate, they just opened a 9th location not long ago so they must be doing something right...

I also think cabinets from big box stores are abit more expensive and will stay away from them for now. My neighbors bought some Kraftmaid quality cabinets from them and paid $1500 more than what I was quoted from a wholesale dealer for a similar size kitchen. They got also nickeled and dimed for upgrades that are standard at the dealers...

I'll be doing more comparison shopping so will ask for more advice in the next few weeks.

Thanks all!

[darstar]

Check out Ikea , it will save you thousands, and be somewhat green in the process.( They use a lot of recycled products and non tree destroying materials)