Plumber/tile guy going against every tile rule I've read! Would you hire someone else or insist that it's done your way (Lowes, drains)
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Well, I hired a plumber/handyman to tile my bathtub surround. He seemed to know a lot about about everything and said he has done many many tile jobs including working on hospitals. However, as I read on here and other forums, I have found several rules that he is breaking and it has me a little freaked out. 1. He put up 1/2 inch cement board BUT he said I usually just fill up the seams with joint compound. After googling this, I was thinking oh crap!. He was half way finished with this when I came in. When he went to cut a piece of cement board, I looked at the bucket and sure enough it was all-purpose joint compound...same stuff I use to fill in nicks before painting. 2. He did not tape the seams between the cement boards. While in Lowes, I asked my friend's dad who is a contractor and he said the seams should definitely be taped with thinset used. While at Lowes I bought the tape and thinset...I took it home and asked him to do the seams over. He said he could add the thinset and tape over the seams already done with joint coupound (the back wall and half way into the long wall). I'm not sure if that will work or not. 3. He said plastic vapor barriers usually cause more trouble than they prevent. This really set off red flags after all my research. He said he always just tiles over the cement board which is water proof. While I was buying the other stuff at Lowes, I also bought some Redguard and asked him to put on a few coats after the cement board was up. He said sure, it's your house. 4. He used drywall screws to put up the cement board. From my reading, there are special screws to be used with cement board. 5. He wants to leave the drywall (regular drywall from 1964) around the top 1.5 feet (8 ft ceiling) and tile over it. At this point I feel like I'm insulting him by pointing out so many things that I think are wrong with his methods. However, I also don't want to spend a lot of money on something that may need to be torn out in a year (his warranty on labor is 1 year) or cause damage to my walls. I also feel like even if I catch some things that aren't done correctly and remedy them...what incorrect things has he done that I'm not seeing? I just started reading about tile 2 weeks ago so Lord knows I'm no expert. As of now, he has the cement board on with joint compound/thinset/tape in the seams. Should I tell him I have decided not to do the job? I would be willing to give him $100 or something for his time. What would you do?
Last edited by eddiehaskell; 10-29-2013 at 03:02 PM..
Well, I hired a plumber/handyman to tile my bathtub surround. He seemed to know a lot about about everything and said he has done many many tile jobs including working on hospitals. However, as I read on here and other forums, I have found several rules that he is breaking and it has me a little freaked out. He put up 1/2 inch cement board BUT he said I usually just fill up the seams with joint compound. After googling this, I was thinking oh crap!. He was half way finished with this when I came in. When he went to cut a piece of cement board, I looked at the bucket and sure enough it was all-purpose joint compound...same stuff I use to fill in nicks before painting. He did not tape the seams between the cement boards. While in Lowes, I asked my friend's dad who is a contractor and he said the seams should definitely be taped with thinset used. While at Lowes I bought the tape and thinset...I took it home and asked him to do the seams over. He said he could add the thinset and tape over the seams already done with joint coupound (the back wall and half way into the long wall). I'm not sure if that will work or not. He said plastic vapor barriers usually cause more trouble than they prevent. This really set off red flags after all my research. He said he always just tiles over the cement board which is water proof. While I was buying the other stuff at Lowes, I also bought some Redguard and asked him to put on a few coats after the cement board was up. He said sure, it's your house. He used drywall screws to put up the cement board. From my reading, there are special screws to be used with cement board. He wants to leave the drywall (regular drywall from 1964) around the top 1.5 feet (8 ft ceiling) and tile over it. At this point I feel like I'm insulting him by pointing out so many things that I think are wrong with his methods. However, I also don't want to spend a lot of money on something that may need to be torn out in a year (his warranty on labor is 1 year) or cause damage to my walls. I also feel like even if I catch some things that aren't done correctly and remedy them...what incorrect things has he done that I'm not seeing? I just started reading about tile 2 weeks ago so Lord knows I'm no expert. As of now, he has the cement board on with joint compound/thinset/tape in the seams. Should I tell him I have decided not to do the job? I would be willing to give him $100 or something for his time. What would you do?
You're right he's wrong. Joint compound is for drywall. Yes you need special screws for. Cement board. Nothing is 100% water proof and I guarantee you cement board is not waterproof. You need vapor barrier. The vapor barrier needs to be installed and installed CORRECTLY otherwise all the moisture that seeps through eventually drains behind the wall. There are a lot of options The tape is special tape and you need mortar not joint compound. I would use this Georgia-Pacific DensShield Tile Backer is Moisture Resistant has built in vapor barrier.
You need green colored drywall in bathrooms/wet areas. You can't leave the old drywall. It's not even rated for bathrooms anymore. When you do a upgrade you need to bring up to code. He should know that.
IMO ? I would get rid of him get someone else. Either he doesn't care or really is clueless. But either way I guarantee you that you'll be ripping that job out in a year.
You can also use tar paper. Just make sure you layer it correctly and the bottom edge is overlapped INTO/inside the tub lip for drainage. Tons of options and the idiot installer is using none. Don't know if lazy or stupid or maybe both.
Ignorance is no excuse for the law (or code in this instance):R702.4 Ceramic tile. R702.4.1 General. Ceramic tile surfaces shall be installed in accordance with ANSI A108.1, A108.4, A108.5, A108.6, A108.11, A118.1, A118.3, A136.1 and A137.1. R702.4.2 Fiber-cement, fiber-mat reinforced cementitious backer units, glass mat gypsum backers and fiber-reinforced gypsum backers. Fiber-cement, fiber-mat reinforced cementitious backer units, glass mat gypsum backers or fiber-reinforced gypsum backers in compliance with ASTM C 1288, C 1325, C 1178 or C 1278, respectively, and installed in accordance with manufacturers’ recommendations shall be used as backers for wall tile in tub and shower areas and wall panels in shower areas.
If he isn't going to follow the code- kick his ass to the curb and find someone who can.
Moisture resistant drywall is not required in bathrooms by code, and can't be used on ceilings unless it's framed 12" oc.For the most part you are right, and here's the proof:http://www.usg.com/content/dam/USG/U...e-en-CB237.pdf
He doesn't have a clue what he is doing and is making a mess. You should stop him and send him on his way or babysit him through the process if that is what you want to do but at this point I wouldn't trust him to do anything right. You don't really need the cement board on the walls. You can apply the redguard over the drywall and then apply the tile. That is the purpose of redguard. You can't use just any thinset over redguard. I believe it has the to the regular thinset. This information is on the label in the instructions. You are right about special screws for the cement board. Drywall screws will rust, the rust will build up and can actually push the tile loose over the years. You can't use joint compound on the cement board. It is pointless even putting it in there because the humidity and moisture will soften it anyway. It also does nothing to adhere the two pieces together. It is just completely pointless. The seams should be filled with thinset and taped with the correct tape. Obviously there is something going on with the forum right now. I can't format my text either. Everything just gets jambed together in one big mess. lol
You hired a plumber / handyman to perform a professional skilled craftsman piece of work. So you created the monster. Would you let a dentist do your knee replacement? Being properly admonished, we now move on to a solution. Give him a few bucks for his time, and tell him you've decided to hire a professional tile installer. This guy doesn't know what he's doing. Period. I am a tile professional, and your installer is the guy that makes people squawk about what a terrible product ceramic tile is. Grrrr!!!K'ledgebldr led you to some specs that are more easily explained in the TCNA Handbook (Tile Council of North America) www.tcnatile.com/handbook . In fact if you message me with an email address, I'll send you the cut sheet that you need.A few notes...cementitious backer board is not waterproof, but the waterproof membrane is not required. It is a nice idea, though. Scrape out the joint compound. Trowel in the thinset mortar. Use the tape over the joint. Apply a skim coat of thinset over the tape. Stainless screws for backer board are better.Extra note: DensShield is the worst tile product I've ever used. Hardie Backer or any of the cementitious boards are better. Much better.Regards,Streamer1212P.S. : John Bridge Ceramic Tile Forum is loaded with reliable info offered by real tile professionals.
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