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I have never understood this. People buy a charming old house. Sometimes they restore all of the rooms to their original splendor - except the kitchen. Instead of restoring the charm of the kitchen they rip it out and install an anachronistic stainless and granite monstristy that looks like it wandered over from the neighboring mass produced 2009 subdivision. What is the advantage of having the kitchen in an old house look like a mass produced subdivision house kitchen that does not belong in that house?
I do no see any huge disadvantage to a charming old fashioned kitchen. Sure you have to sand and pain the counters and cabinets once in a while, but you are not endlessly trying to scrub away fingerprints like on stainless, so the work load is about equal. Cabinets are cabinets, sinks are sinks and a stove makes things hot. "New" is just a question of style so why do people who purport to love historic charm go "new" or at least temporarily new in the kitchen?
It is getting harder and harder to find historic homes where the kitchen has not been butchered and "updated" (often repeatedly). Then when the temporarily modern kitchen get out of style, it is replaced with a new temporarily modern kitchen. Maybe this is just the result of marketing skills of kitchen component manufactures.
Really shocking to me is the practice of tearing out real wood cabinets (sometimes beautiful glass fronted ones) and replacing them with poorly made laminated or veneered junk constructed of sawdust mixed with glue instead of wood.
Newer layouts may make some cooking work 12% more efficient, but is that really worth having a commercial or cheap looking kitchen that is quickly out of date instead of a warm grandmas kitchen with charm and historical quality? Actually some of the feature of older kitchens that are no longer in use are very useful. For example warming ovens on the top of an oven stack. For that matter the fact that you do not have to bend over to get to the ovens in a stack is wonderful for those of us with back issues. Can you really beat the look of a 1927 monitor top fridge, or a Magic Chef 6300 stove? They really do not work all that differently than modern chrome monstrosities.
I can understand replacing a charmless 1970s or 1980s kitchen that was installed to "update" the original kitchen, but why continue the abuse? Why not restore the original kitchen as much as possible? Why do people love the charm of old houses until you get to the kitchen?
You usually pay a premium for historic charm. Why rip it out and put in the same common junk that appears in mass produced homes everywhere?
Even odder to me - when we sold our former house with a restored original 1893 kitchen (reproduction stove and hidden dishwasher fridge and microwave), it had a really neat small kitchen with on of the few remaining California Cooler cabinets. The guy who bought it tore everything out and replace it with a fantasy version of a 1950s diner kitchen. While it is a neat looking kitchen for a 1950s diner, it looks utterly absurd in an 1893 home. It must have cost him a fortune and when he tried to sell the house, prospective buyers came into the kitchen and laughed.
First off, I am going to make an assumption that anyone who rehabs an old home with a legitimate, honest fidelity to the original probably would also do so in the kitchen. Or at least use modern repros and period-appropriate materials. But how many people really do that? They upgrade electric and HVAC. Better windows. And so on.
There's probably no other room in the house that has been affected more by advances in home technology than the kitchen. I'm talking plumbing, electricity, materials, etc. (No, that 1930's fridge does not work as well as a new one). That, and the changes in how and when we eat and cook and what the family looks like these days would suggest that kitchens are understandably evolving.
Now I'm not defending shoddy materials or poor design. Certainly I'll admit that we're flooding these days with 'bright shiny objects' that don't deliver quality but sure do look nice for 2 years.
What you find charming doesn't appeal to many people. If you see it in "mass produced houses" that should tell you that it's popular. I don't care for stainless myself and large reject HGTV McModern but for my kitchen, I'd rather have more modern appliances, built ins, cabinetry. I'd also prefer granite/quartz over wood or tile and I love glass backsplashes.
How does a granite counter work better than soapstone or even wood for that matter? All of them serve the same purpose. Wood gets damaged easier, but it is also repairable where stone is usually not (and it looks silly in an old house).
If you want to assert how modern kitchens are so much more high tech, could you please be specific? I am not aware of any such amazing upgrades in technology other than microwaves which are easily hidden in a cabinet or pantry.
How does a modern fridge work better than mine? Both keep things cold. Modern holds more, but we have never run out of room and we have seven (sometimes eight) in our household. We do not store a lot of excess stuff in our fridge. Maybe if we stored more outdated food instead of tossing it, we would need more space. That was the only difference we had when we lived in a house with a modern "high tech" fridge. Some modern fridges have internet connections for some odd reason, but I do not think I am willing to trade charm for a mass produced subdivision look in order to get an internet connection to my fridge. some have water and ice in the door, which is nice, but I am not really adverse to the effort of opening the door to get some ice. Yes it makes a tiny difference, but hardly a high tech marvel. I did not see any power usage difference when we ditched out modern high tech fridge. Sure new ones are more efficient, but they also cool a lot of extra wasted space. again the extra space may be nice at times, but it is not a huge difference. Having to walk out to the dog room to the freezer is inefficient, nut really that is not a big deal. I am looking for the major big deal things that make it worth having a silly looking out of place subdivision kitchen in an old house. What are they?
How does a gas stove or oven work better than a gas stove or oven? Other than some features to make them more safe for idiots, they are the same. A sink is a sink. 160 year old cabinets hold the same dishes as new ones and they look better and don't fall apart when it gets humid. In fact the 160 year old cabinets actually hold a lot more dishes (except you need a ladder to get to the top shelves).
We did keep radiator heat. It is far superior to forced air. That is why it is still used in high end houses.
We also kept some knob wiring. In this case not because it is better, but because there was nothing wrong with it so there was no reason to remove it.
Vinyl windows are only slightly better than well maintained windows with storms for insulating purposes. Windows are terrible insulators and that is not where you save money on HVAC notwithstanding the lies the window marketing people tell you (the mark up on windows is astronomical so they will say anything to sell you on them), and after a few years, the vinyl windows leak and lose their R value anyway.
Sorry, but plumbing has changed very little. Materials are different and modern fittings are usually made in china of the cheapest available materials, but not really different. At least not unless you go with those auto motion sensor faucets. Otherwise pretty much the same - turn the knob or pull the lever and water comes out. Does your sink do something different? Internet connection?
Not too many old house aficionados would rip out original windows and replace them with vinyl. If you need to replace the windows, some companies still make good quality wood windows in the same way. Most know not to switch out radiated heat. Few would be foolish enough to remove period light fixtures, sinks, claw foot tubs and the like. Most know High velocity AC can be hidden under radiators or elsewhere without destroying historic charm. However these same people seem to turn into marketing sheep when it comes to the kitchen.
How does a granite counter work better than soapstone or even wood for that matter? All of them serve the same purpose. Wood gets damaged easier, but it is also repairable where stone is usually not (and it looks silly in an old house).
If you want to assert how modern kitchens are so much more high tech, could you please be specific? I am not aware of any such amazing upgrades in technology other than microwaves which are easily hidden in a cabinet or pantry.
How does a modern fridge work better than mine? Both keep things cold. Modern holds more, but we have never run out of room and we have seven (sometimes eight) in our household. We do not store a lot of excess stuff in our fridge. Maybe if we stored more outdated food instead of tossing it, we would need more space. That was the only difference we had when we lived in a house with a modern "high tech" fridge. Some modern fridges have internet connections for some odd reason, but I do not think I am willing to trade charm for a mass produced subdivision look in order to get an internet connection to my fridge. some have water and ice in the door, which is nice, but I am not really adverse to the effort of opening the door to get some ice. Yes it makes a tiny difference, but hardly a high tech marvel. I did not see any power usage difference when we ditched out modern high tech fridge. Sure new ones are more efficient, but they also cool a lot of extra wasted space. again the extra space may be nice at times, but it is not a huge difference. Having to walk out to the dog room to the freezer is inefficient, nut really that is not a big deal. I am looking for the major big deal things that make it worth having a silly looking out of place subdivision kitchen in an old house. What are they?
How does a gas stove or oven work better than a gas stove or oven? Other than some features to make them more safe for idiots, they are the same. A sink is a sink. 160 year old cabinets hold the same dishes as new ones and they look better and don't fall apart when it gets humid. In fact the 160 year old cabinets actually hold a lot more dishes (except you need a ladder to get to the top shelves).
We did keep radiator heat. It is far superior to forced air. That is why it is still used in high end houses.
We also kept some knob wiring. In this case not because it is better, but because there was nothing wrong with it so there was no reason to remove it.
Vinyl windows are only slightly better than well maintained windows with storms for insulating purposes. Windows are terrible insulators and that is not where you save money on HVAC notwithstanding the lies the window marketing people tell you (the mark up on windows is astronomical so they will say anything to sell you on them), and after a few years, the vinyl windows leak and lose their R value anyway.
Sorry, but plumbing has changed very little. Materials are different and modern fittings are usually made in china of the cheapest available materials, but not really different. At least not unless you go with those auto motion sensor faucets. Otherwise pretty much the same - turn the knob or pull the lever and water comes out. Does your sink do something different? Internet connection?
Not too many old house aficionados would rip out original windows and replace them with vinyl. If you need to replace the windows, some companies still make good quality wood windows in the same way. Most know not to switch out radiated heat. Few would be foolish enough to remove period light fixtures, sinks, claw foot tubs and the like. Most know High velocity AC can be hidden under radiators or elsewhere without destroying historic charm. However these same people seem to turn into marketing sheep when it comes to the kitchen.
I'm sorry, I know you like your rant, so I'm not really going to bother to reply too much.
Nothing wring with Knob wiring...yeah right.
Galvanized pipes?
Pilot lights?
Waste disposals?
Frost free?
Multi-zone HVAC?
One overhead light on a pullchain (my grandmother's kitchen)?
Not bothering with the rest...just will say not everything old was great and not everything new is bad.
Last edited by elhelmete; 08-02-2016 at 04:46 PM..
Coldjensens, I have to agree 100% with both of your posts regarding old kitchens. The POs of my 1927 bungalow removed the original cabinets and replaced them with 1990s ones (which I will be painting). I would never install granite countertops or, even worse, stainless steel appliances in my kitchen because they would look totally ludicrous in a bungalow kitchen. I already replaced the gas stove that was there when I bought the house with a restored 1953 Wedgwood gas stove - everyone who comes into the house sees and loves it. BTW, I would have gone with an older gas stove, I just couldn't fit it in the space that was available.
It drives me nuts to look at house listings and see an old house with "kitchen upgraded/updated" because invariably the owners have turned it into some neo-modern monstrosity that no longer looks appropriate.
Layout usually. I attended a dinner party at a beautifully restored 19th century home on Queen Anne. The kitchen consisted of 2 rooms, one with the appliances was 20' long and 8' wide, the second was about 6' wide, each had only about 3' of walking space down the center. Confused, I asked the host why the kitchen was so small in such a grand house. Answer? Only the servants used the kitchen 120 years ago. The second parallel room was the pantry.
They kept the original layout as designed. That was an anachronism! In current times they only had a nanny and a maid - no cooks on staff.
Well, newer fridges do work better, and they are more energy efficient. The old ones don't have enough produce drawers or meat keeper drawers. They might not have enough storage in the doors. And, they also don't have icemakers. So--frankly I want a newer fridge.
It sounds as if you talking about really nice older homes. I've never personally seen a soapstone counter, old or new. My experience with old kitchens is that they are awkward, and not easy to work in. The hand built birch cabinets that my parents had built for their house in the mid 1950s, aren't as nice as the ones I have now, or as the ones I had installed in 1999.
I think if I was restoring an old house of character, and the cabinets were still in good shape, and especially if they had old glass in them, I'd incorporate those elements into the new design. But I do not want to cook in an old, inefficient kitchen. And I want it to be fully wired with many outlets and under cabinet lights. (I've had too many years cooking in dark, under powered kitchens)
As to stoves, give me a good electric oven, and an induction cook top. If you ever use induction, you would never, ever want to use anything else. I also greatly admire large gas stoves, but I'd want a good one. Some of the old gas stoves are good appliances, but finding one is hard. For most of us, finding a good, high performing appliance makes cooking so much more enjoyable. And, I'd always want a dishwasher.
The housewife of 1955 wanted the best appliances; I think most of us today want the same.
What you are posting is nothing more than your personal taste/preferences. For some strange reason you have this mistaken notion that newer kitchens and frankly anything that isn't an "oldie but goodie" is cheap and inferior. You couldn't be farther from the truth. My contemporary cabinets are solid maple and custom. Well made is well made regardless of style or build year. As for granite/Quartz/etc I just like the way the look plain and simple. It's not always about function. A cement slab theoretically would work too but I don't find it appealing to my eye. I like separate cooktops and wall ovens. I like lots of drawers, dividers, and all sorts of things that newer kitchens have. The only limit is your imagination. I'll just let your "mass produced subdivision" comments slide...there are some really nice newer "subdivision" homes that are not cookie cutter or give any sort of impression of being mass produced. Think custom homes, for example. Listen I hear you about older homes. I love them and maybe will live in one when I retire. But everything doesn't need to be yanked straight out of the history book to look good. And having dealt with radiators in NYC, you can keep that you get no high end points here for having radiator heat
I wish my 1928 house, which other than the kitchen and bathrooms was thankfully unmolested and has otherwise extraordinary finishes and details, had its original cabinets, finishes and layouts but they had long been replaced. The kitschy cute '50s style kitchen installed in the '70s(?) (at least partially), work shop fluorescent light fixtures and Formica wall paneling had to go after a couple of years.
I didn't have the budget to recreate the old growth wood inlay cabinets and would probably choose some different finishes the next time around but did include custom etched glass inlay shaker style maple cabinets, hand made tile with small, subtle mosaic inlay pattern backsplash (not glass!) and white oak floors so it doesn't necessarily look too out of place. Also, I'm a damn good cook and needed a bit more functionality incorporated in the old space.
We all make choices based in practicality and budget, but I'm with you that I mostly cringe when I see most remodeled kitchens desperately grasping at the "style of the moment" which immediately dates it in otherwise charming vintage houses (or at least before they removed all those horrible, enclosing walls that were a part of the "modernization"), completely dismissing the era of the rest of house.
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you get no high end points here for having radiator heat
