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I've pretty much figured out our own answer for this, but I'll toss it out for discussion:
We've moved into a 60-year-old house in north TX with a 2-foot pier and beam crawl space.
A foundation specialist recommends a lot of pier shimming to "balance" it out--about $11,000 worth of shimming.
However, the crawl space still has zero vapor barriers and zero insulation. Plain dirt on the ground, nothing insulating the floor.
There is that musty odor and high humidity.
So we're planning at this point to have an insulation expert install vapor barriers and spray-foam the floor and joists, which will have an immediate quality-of-life benefit before dealing with shimming the piers.
I would do the shimming first, so those workers can see everything, and so they don't destroy your brand new vapor barrier crawling around on it. Put in the insulation and vapor barrier last, when you don't need to go under there again.
I would do the shimming first, so those workers can see everything, and so they don't destroy your brand new vapor barrier crawling around on it. Put in the insulation and vapor barrier last, when you don't need to go under there again.
Well, we can't afford to be paying for both at the same time, so there's going to be a couple of years between them.
First of all I think $11k for leveling is way high. I had multiple piers set under the perimeter beam down to rock, plus leveling throughout, a couple years ago and I think it was about $8000. Just going underneath with bottle jacks and shims to level the house doesn't sound like $11k to me.
I am very very leery of getting into vapor barriers and under-floor insulation in this kind of construction, as I would worry about moisture buildup where you don't want it. Personally I would first make sure of your perimeter drainage. Make darn sure you're not getting water under there. Then I would make sure to open up all the side vents and get everything well ventilated under there, and see how the mustiness goes. In N. TX on a pier and beam house with a properly ventilated crawl space the humidity in the crawl space ought to be just about what it is outside. If it's much higher then my guess is you're getting water in there during a heavy rain.
In the spring, you open up all the side vents. In the late fall you close them up. That's what my family and I have done since the early 1960s on pier and beam houses in Dallas, and we have not ever had any problems. I doubt whether the vapor barrier and underfloor insulation will make a big improvement and I would fear the unintended consequences.
Are some of your side vents blocked off?
Also, keep in mind that leveling the house is likely to cause cracks in drywall and possibly some sticking doors, so you want to do that before you do interior painting so the patching (and shaving of doors) can be done while painting the interior.
If you insulate the floor and vapor barrier the ground your ROI is about 25-30yrs.
In 25-30yrs without leveling the house, it's possible it could be so far out of wack that it's uninhabitable.
Certain parts of Texas have very expansive soils- if the house is in one of these areas, all the more reason to keep it as level as possible- selling could be near impossible without keeping this in check.
And, if your vapor barrier-underfloor insulation project isn't done just right, it could cost you many thousands in replacing rotted out wood that got wet when moisture got trapped in the insulation; not to mention that ease of access for repairs is one of the advantages of pier and beam crawl space construction which will be compromised.
What if you have a small leak around the wax ring of a toilet? Will the underfloor insulation get soaked and destroy the subfloor and nearby joists, rather than just dripping off?
I am always suspicious of any home improvement service or product that starts being incessantly hyped; as witness window replacement. This whole "vapor barrier/crawlspace insulation/put a dehumidifier down there constantly running to remove the humidity that open side vents would take care of for free" business is starting to sound like an excellent way to move money from your pocket to someone else's while also failing to solve a nonexistent problem, or at best using irrelevant means to solve the wrong problem. If your problem is that your perimeter drainage causes it to get wet under there (I have something like this currently) then you need to fix the drainage issue, not apply Band-aids to the symptom.
My recommendation would be:
- Make sure the drainage around the house is correct
- Seal up around your trap door in the closet, so musty smells don't get into the house
- Open up the side vents and let everything dry out (until the really cold weather comes in January, then close 'em up till early spring, then open 'em back up)
- wait a year and see if mustiness decreases.
Buy some knee pads and plastic and put down your own vapor barrier, that’s what I did. I then hired a company to do the closed cell foam under the floors for a cost of about $2300 for a 1200 sqft house. The musty smell under there is about 90% improved.
Buy some knee pads and plastic and put down your own vapor barrier, that’s what I did. I then hired a company to do the closed cell foam under the floors for a cost of about $2300 for a 1200 sqft house. The musty smell under there is about 90% improved.
Did they spray and leave it, or scrape it level with the joists?
Did they spray and leave it, or scrape it level with the joists?
It’s only sprayed about 3 inches thick, that’s all that’s needed down here. I did it mainly because I was getting condensation under my floors that was causing mold, that’s where the musty smell was coming from.
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