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When we restored our 1836 home, we wanted to use all the best equipment and materials. For heating, that meant radiated heat with a high tech Lochinvar Knight boiler. This little boiler was amazing. About a tenth the size of the 1930s or 40s boiler that took up half the basement (coal, converted to oil, and then to gas), the tiny Lochinvar boiler supplies 210,000 BTU. It provides heat divided into four different zones so we can customize the temperature control in different parts of the house. The boiler is managed by a built in computer system that measures outdoor temperatures as well as indoor and somehow uses that to ensure better efficiency. It is "high efficiency" so the exhaust can vent through a wall and does not need to go up through the roof. Everything was automatic. Just hook it up and be wonderfully warm all winter.
Except the first winter. When temperatures dropped in December, the boiler quit working. The installer came back and tried various things and replaced different parts. Finally they decided that they had placed the outlet pipe too close to the intake and the moisture from the outlet pipe was freezing inside the intake. So the re-did the outlet and intake. When that did nothing to solve the problem, they began replacing other parts. It was all under warranty, but we were freezing in our newly restored home. All of this took nearly a month during which time we discovered why few people still use fireplaces to heat their homes. The old fireplaces heat much better than modern ones do because modern fireplaces have to be idiot proof safe and therefore are merely decorations. Our fireplaces blasted out heat, even the second floor was heated by the chimneys.However if you are near the fireplace or chimney, it is about 90 degrees, as you move away it gets cooler and cooler finally dropping to about 40 degrees in some parts of some rooms. In the additions to the house we had to run little quartz electric heaters.
By the time the installers had finished their work, it had warmed up considerably but the heat was working! It was still pretty cold outside but not the bitterly bone chilling cold it was during Christmas. We were up an running and ready for winter. Bring it on!
Until late January when the temperature took a sudden massive downturn once again. When the weather suddenly changed, the boiler quit again. Another two weeks and more replacement parts and adjustments and it was up and running again. Finally good to go.
Until the following winter. When the temperature dropped by 20 degrees in one day in December, the boiler promptly quit. More adjusting and replacing ensued. My brother loaned us some Kerosun kerosene heaters from the 1970s. These work great, but they are a little smelly. We tested for carbon monoxide and found the levels stayed comfortably low, even upstairs. Still the heat was unevenly distributed and filling the heaters and trimming the wicks was a constant chore. They were an improvement over feeding logs into a fireplace on and off through the night and far less smokey than the fireplaces.
For three winters we went through the same cycle. Every time the temperature would drop, the high tech Lochinvar would quit. They removed the outdoor temperature sensor, tried everything they could think of, nothing worked, or at east not for long. Finally Lochinvar learned of our plight and sent a technician from the factory in Tennessee or Kentucky. They were tired of sending new parts for warranty repairs. The Lochinvar technician was here for twenty minutes and announced that they had programmed the computer incorrectly when they installed the thing. Now it was all set.
It worked well for about five or seven years. then for the next three or five, it worked but it kept dripping water from the exhaust vent pipe. A lot of water, about ten gallons a week. Local repair technicians looked at it and shook their heads and said it should not do that. It should not be producing that much water. It should not be leaking either. However none of them were able to make it stop. Still we had heat, we just had to remember to go empty the bucket every two or three days.
This year it quit again. A new company came and said the burner was very dirty which might explain the production of so much water. They also said the igniter board was dead. A replacement costs $800 plus installation costs and tax, and would take 7 days to get one. I told them go ahead and order one, but I would call Lochinvar and see if I could get them to expedite it. Their customer service was awesome once we got hold of them earlier.
After some back and forth between the repairman and customer service to determine exactly the part we needed, the customer service line recording said they were closed for an important employee meeting. Then i could not reach customer service anymore. Then it was thanksgiving. A very cold thanksgiving. Then I got really busy with work. Today I called the repairman and asked whether the igniter board had come in. He said he thought I said I was going to call Lochinvar directly and order one. Arrrgh!
I still cannot reach Lochinvar customer service to see about expediting it, but we are now looking at another 7 day wait (or more) to get an $800 igniter board and see whether that solves the problem.
I checked a while ago to see what a new boiler the same as ours would cost - over $8000. given recent inflation and other issues, I expect it woudl be $12,000 to $15,000 for a new one now.
Meanwhile had I kept the old simplistic giant beast of a boiler with no computer, if the igniter went out, I could have lit the boiler with a match. A match costs less than a penny.
Lochinvar customer service was pretty impressive first time round, but I wish I had gotten a simple and/or cheaper boiler. No computers, easy to fix and priced to be replaceable if it cannot be readily fixed. Yes I might be on our second or third boiler with another brand, but it would not have cost any more and we woudl not be going into our fourth December with no heat during the past 15 years.
My point is not to knock lochnivar, but to suggest it is better to not go high end, high tech with a boiler or furnace. Get the cheaper one. One that is simple and easy to repair or affordable to replace. Above all else get one with absolutely no computers.
Last edited by Coldjensens; 12-01-2022 at 06:53 PM..
Sorry you have to deal with that. You are recognizing what a lot of us have known for years.
1. Simple IS better - and much more reliable.
2. Closed-end proprietary systems hold you by the short hairs and squeeze.
The denial of those basic truisms by a majority of people has always made me shake my head. Back when I was working in theatres, I was the only one to dare take-on repair of a proprietary point-of-sale hardware/software system. Many times, components couldn't be fixed. I made a fair amount of money doing repairs, but I realized I could write software that would run on standard PCs and use standard printers and do all of the functions of the proprietary system and much more. I sold to a lot of thinking owners of smaller theatres, but the big chains were always suckers for the ultra-expensive proprietary systems.
BTW, on a related note for homeowners, Trane has a reputation for quality equipment, but current scuttlebutt from a property manager is that repair parts can now be out of stock for an entire season. Because it is a closed system, replacing parts with generics is either not possible or voids warrantees.
In a number of ways, the simple electro-mechanical era of the 1950s was the most user-friendly and bang-for-the-buck era. Almost anything could be fixed, even if it was with baling wire.
When we restored our 1836 home, we wanted to use all the best equipment and materials. For heating, that meant radiated heat with a high tech Lochinvar Knight boiler. This little boiler was amazing. About a tenth the size of the 1930s or 40s boiler that took up half the basement (coal, converted to oil, and then to gas), the tiny Lochinvar boiler supplies 210,000 BTU. It provides heat divided into four different zones so we can customize the temperature control in different parts of the house. The boiler is managed by a built in computer system that measures outdoor temperatures as well as indoor and somehow uses that to ensure better efficiency. It is "high efficiency" so the exhaust can vent through a wall and does not need to go up through the roof. Everything was automatic. Just hook it up and be wonderfully warm all winter.
Except the first winter. When temperatures dropped in December, the boiler quit working. The installer came back and tried various things and replaced different parts. Finally they decided that they had placed the outlet pipe too close to the intake and the moisture from the outlet pipe was freezing inside the intake. So the re-did the outlet and intake. When that did nothing to solve the problem, they began replacing other parts. It was all under warranty, but we were freezing in our newly restored home. All of this took nearly a month during which time we discovered why few people still use fireplaces to heat their homes. The old fireplaces heat much better than modern ones do because modern fireplaces have to be idiot proof safe and therefore are merely decorations. Our fireplaces blasted out heat, even the second floor was heated by the chimneys.However if you are near the fireplace or chimney, it is about 90 degrees, as you move away it gets cooler and cooler finally dropping to about 40 degrees in some parts of some rooms. In the additions to the house we had to run little quartz electric heaters.
By the time the installers had finished their work, it had warmed up considerably but the heat was working! It was still pretty cold outside but not the bitterly bone chilling cold it was during Christmas. We were up an running and ready for winter. Bring it on!
Until late January when the temperature took a sudden massive downturn once again. When the weather suddenly changed, the boiler quit again. Another two weeks and more replacement parts and adjustments and it was up and running again. Finally good to go.
Until the following winter. When the temperature dropped by 20 degrees in one day in December, the boiler promptly quit. More adjusting and replacing ensued. My brother loaned us some Kerosun kerosene heaters from the 1970s. These work great, but they are a little smelly. We tested for carbon monoxide and found the levels stayed comfortably low, even upstairs. Still the heat was unevenly distributed and filling the heaters and trimming the wicks was a constant chore. They were an improvement over feeding logs into a fireplace on and off through the night and far less smokey than the fireplaces.
For three winters we went through the same cycle. Every time the temperature would drop, the high tech Lochinvar would quit. They removed the outdoor temperature sensor, tried everything they could think of, nothing worked, or at east not for long. Finally Lochinvar learned of our plight and sent a technician from the factory in Tennessee or Kentucky. They were tired of sending new parts for warranty repairs. The Lochinvar technician was here for twenty minutes and announced that they had programmed the computer incorrectly when they installed the thing. Now it was all set.
It worked well for about five or seven years. then for the next three or five, it worked but it kept dripping water from the exhaust vent pipe. A lot of water, about ten gallons a week. Local repair technicians looked at it and shook their heads and said it should not do that. It should not be producing that much water. It should not be leaking either. However none of them were able to make it stop. Still we had heat, we just had to remember to go empty the bucket every two or three days.
This year it quit again. A new company came and said the burner was very dirty which might explain the production of so much water. They also said the igniter board was dead. A replacement costs $800 plus installation costs and tax, and would take 7 days to get one. I told them go ahead and order one, but I would call Lochinvar and see if I could get them to expedite it. Their customer service was awesome once we got hold of them earlier.
After some back and forth between the repairman and customer service to determine exactly the part we needed, the customer service line recording said they were closed for an important employee meeting. Then i could not reach customer service anymore. Then it was thanksgiving. A very cold thanksgiving. Then I got really busy with work. Today I called the repairman and asked whether the igniter board had come in. He said he thought I said I was going to call Lochinvar directly and order one. Arrrgh!
I still cannot reach Lochinvar customer service to see about expediting it, but we are now looking at another 7 day wait (or more) to get an $800 igniter board and see whether that solves the problem.
I checked a while ago to see what a new boiler the same as ours would cost - over $8000. given recent inflation and other issues, I expect it woudl be $12,000 to $15,000 for a new one now.
Meanwhile had I kept the old simplistic giant beast of a boiler with no computer, if the igniter went out, I could have lit the boiler with a match. A match costs less than a penny.
Lochinvar customer service was pretty impressive first time round, but I wish I had gotten a simple and/or cheaper boiler. No computers, easy to fix and priced to be replaceable if it cannot be readily fixed. Yes I might be on our second or third boiler with another brand, but it would not have cost any more and we woudl not be going into our fourth December with no heat during the past 15 years.
My point is not to knock lochnivar, but to suggest it is better to not go high end, high tech with a boiler or furnace. Get the cheaper one. One that is simple and easy to repair or affordable to replace. Above all else get one with absolutely no computers.
Ever heard of “Reader’s Digest”???
A novel for a two sentence statement is kinda overkill dontcha think!?
Sadly the move towards more electronically controlled furnaces and boilers is not ending. The goal is to become more energy efficient and safety. If done right they are very much efficient, safe, and can extend the life of the system. But the electronic controls are subject to Murphy’s Law. A reputable company will have had more R&D on these new systems as well as product support in parts and technical service. When we replaced our entire central air unit we went with a brand and company we knew and trusted and included the service contract.
We were very close to replacing the 1970's furnace in our 1900's house this winter. But it works great and, frankly, is a very simple machine (hot water radiators, not steam). It'll eventually need replacing, but of all the homes we've owned and own now, I've never had something this old work this good.
It gets quite cold in the interior of Alaska, and the most common oil-fired boilers for home heating are (there may be a couple more i can't remember, including "System2000"):
-Carlin
-Weil-McClain
-Beckett
-Slant-Fin
The Slant-Fin boiler I have has a Rhiello burner and I have been quite happy with it for over 14 years. There is nothing fancy about these boilers. In here lots of water boilers are "pickled" (water/glycol mix) to prevent freezes if the power goes out for a long time, or if the blower stops working. Most have a "tiger loop" on the fuel line, and some home owners have an electronic exterior temperature monitor/controller (outdoors) that adjust the boiler water temperature depending on how cold it is outside the house. In this case the unit lowers the boiler cut-in and cut-out temperature automatically. Most technicians you call for maintenance know all there is to know about these boiler brands.
MY Slant-Fin boiler is setup like the System 2000 boiler shown below, except for the control panel. The boiler heats the house, and the hot water for showers and the rest: https://energykinetics.com/system200...icient-boiler/
I don't mind hi-tech, but I prefer products that have been on the market awhile. Let someone else work the bugs out.
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