Income Tax vs. Homeowners Tax (Humble, Mart: home, property tax, living)

[winkosmosis]

Originally Posted by jek74

Yes but the point you are missing here is that taxes are not simply going up in a vacuum, the property owner is gaining equity!!!!! They SHOULD be taxed more as the value of their investment is going higher.

The problem is they aren't taxed when they sell the house... They're taxed continually while they live in it, with zero regard for whether they can afford it. If taxes are high enough they're FORCED to sell by the government.

It would be like if the VALUE of your small business was taxed, rather than profits. Or the VALUE of your bank account. How does that in any way make sense?

[jek74]

Originally Posted by winkosmosis

The problem is they aren't taxed when they sell the house... They're taxed continually while they live in it, with zero regard for whether they can afford it. If taxes are high enough they're FORCED to sell by the government.

It would be like if the VALUE of your small business was taxed, rather than profits. Or the VALUE of your bank account. How does that in any way make sense?

Actually many states do that, it's called a VAT (value added tax). FL is one example of that. They tax your investments based on the actual value of them, not on whether you made a profit or even sold them. Many countries around the world, including most in Europe, have a VAT tax. It's nothing new. Been around forever.

As for your example, nothing stops them from going to the bank and taking out the extra 1k or 2k in taxes in the form of a loan from that extra 300k in equity they have.

Or maybe you could stop voting for people in Washington whose solution to every problem is to print more money thereby driving up asset prices. Just a thought.

[jasonamd]

Originally Posted by PedroMartinez

Apparently, you don't seem to understand property taxes very much. So, let's run through this.

Here is the tax record for a home I picked out in Crosby, TX.

Hcad Acct: 1001820000150

First, do you happen to notice that there is no tax for the City Of Crosby? Well, there is not one, because they receive county services.

When you think about rural counties, think about the roads and how far the homes are spread apart. Do you think the closest town is paying to maintain that road? Nope. Those roads are being maintained by the county.

You're example town above with the single gas station and the single McDonalds will be receiving the vast majority of their services through the county (the group, other than the ISD, that gets the lion's share of most property tax).

Yes I understand how they work. Whatever the case may be, using sales tax instead of property tax is a very poor solution as it really isn't any more fair than property taxes and in some cases maybe even less fair. What's going to happen if 2 nearby cities have differing tax rates like I mentioned earlier. If it is a large enough difference people will go where it is less and in turn hurt the the other city.

Using sales tax for important and necessary services is just asking for trouble because you are giving individuals control over how much they decide to pay in taxes. If you decide you don't want to pay taxes you quit buying stuff. If you quit buying stuff companies go out of business or close the location. Companies go out of business or close, you lose jobs....less jobs, less people buying stuff....etc, etc, etc

[jek74]

Originally Posted by PedroMartinez

You may want to look up libertarian.

Here you go Pedro, don't say I never did you any favors.

Libertarian theories of law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The defining characteristics of libertarian legal theory are its insistence that the amount of government intervention should be kept to a minimum and the primary functions of law should be enforcement of contracts and social order, though "social order" is often seen as a desirable side effect of a free market rather than a philosophical necessity.
Historically, the Austrian economist Friedrich Hayek is the most important libertarian legal theorist.[citation needed] Another important predecessor was Lysander Spooner, a 19th-century American individualist anarchist and lawyer. John Locke was also an influence on libertarian law theory (see Two Treatises of Government).
Ideas range from anarcho-capitalism to a minimal state providing mere enforcement of contracts. Some advocate regulation, including the existence of a police force, military, public land, and public infrastructure. Geolibertarians oppose absolute ownership of land on Georgist grounds.

[PedroMartinez]

Originally Posted by winkosmosis

Income tax is the only one that really makes sense.

Question. If the household income for a family of five is $80k and the mother has leukemia, going through very expensive treatment and is so sick they must pay a caregiver to watch the youngest two who aren't in school yet, do you think they would have a lot of disposable income?

Now, if you have a young man making $35k a year and living in a home with three roommates, do you think he might have more disposable income he's using on things like a tv, stereo, car tires, etc than the family above?

If you had the choice, would you rather the young man buying the rims and phone pay more in taxes or the family be forced to sell their home?

I know that I'd rather the dude pay 30% extra for the Xbox than the family being kicked out of their home because they can't afford the property taxes.

And let's say you have a family in the Heights that had been there for 25 years. The father has the same job at the same local business that he's been working at since high school. Back when they purchased the home, it was $50,000. Over the years, HCAD has been steadily raising appraisal, and now the property is valued at $225,000 and their taxes are at about $6500 a year. Now, they can no longer afford to be in the area, and he's forced to move and either commute to his job or find a new one. Is this what we want?

[PedroMartinez]

Originally Posted by jek74

Here you go Pedro, don't say I never did you any favors.

Libertarian theories of law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The defining characteristics of libertarian legal theory are its insistence that the amount of government intervention should be kept to a minimum and the primary functions of law should be enforcement of contracts and social order, though "social order" is often seen as a desirable side effect of a free market rather than a philosophical necessity.
Historically, the Austrian economist Friedrich Hayek is the most important libertarian legal theorist.[citation needed] Another important predecessor was Lysander Spooner, a 19th-century American individualist anarchist and lawyer. John Locke was also an influence on libertarian law theory (see Two Treatises of Government).
Ideas range from anarcho-capitalism to a minimal state providing mere enforcement of contracts. Some advocate regulation, including the existence of a police force, military, public land, and public infrastructure. Geolibertarians oppose absolute ownership of land on Georgist grounds.

So, can you start listing the services that the government provides that you believe should be eliminated?

[PedroMartinez]

Originally Posted by jek74

As for your example, nothing stops them from going to the bank and taking out the extra 1k or 2k in taxes in the form of a loan from that extra 300k in equity they have.

So you want them to get loans to stay in the house?

And what happens if the "value" is from a bubble that pops? Should the bank then just forgive those loans?

[PedroMartinez]

Originally Posted by jek74

Yes but the point you are missing here is that taxes are not simply going up in a vacuum, the property owner is gaining equity!!!!! They SHOULD be taxed more as the value of their investment is going higher.

You only realize that equity when you sell. Believe it or not, people don't want to be selling their homes every few years so they can realize the equity and pay the taxes. There are actually people who want to stay in their homes until they are forced to move to an assisted living facility or the graveyard.

Of course, that does illustrate quite well how the government is raising your rent.

[PedroMartinez]

Originally Posted by jek74

Actually many states do that, it's called a VAT (value added tax). FL is one example of that. They tax your investments based on the actual value of them, not on whether you made a profit or even sold them. Many countries around the world, including most in Europe, have a VAT tax. It's nothing new. Been around forever.

As for your example, nothing stops them from going to the bank and taking out the extra 1k or 2k in taxes in the form of a loan from that extra 300k in equity they have.

Or maybe you could stop voting for people in Washington whose solution to every problem is to print more money thereby driving up asset prices. Just a thought.

Yeah, you're a libertarian. ROFLMAO!

[jek74]

Originally Posted by PedroMartinez

Yeah, you're a libertarian. ROFLMAO!

I never said I supported a VAT. Those are your left wing comrades in Europe. I was pointing out VAT's exist and have been around a long time. I would never support a VAT or your crazy 40% sales tax wealth distribution scam.