C'mon Lance Berkman - What's this drivel coming from your mouth? (Houston: city hall, movie theater)

[PedroMartinez]

Originally Posted by Pine to Vine

So this is your answer to my question: Have the public restrooms of Houston been overrun with men claiming they are women in the 17 months HERO has been in place? This is all the answer I need. I'm going to take hedging as "No" because if the answer was "Yes" then you would have trumpeted it, given your fascination with bathrooms and what is in the panties of those using them.

At no point did I ever say the bathroom were going to be overrun, did I? The answer would be no, I didn't.

My point, which is valid, is that this gives cover to any men who might use it to scope out restrooms for sexual assault victims. We have no way of knowing if that has happened yet in Houston or not.

What we do know is that there is a very serious problem with women being sexually assaulted. We also know that it has happened in restrooms too many times.

Finally, we do know of one prime example where a sexual predator has used the excuse of being transgender to access restroom to sexually assault women.

We don't need hoards of men going into the women's restrooms to be a problem, all we need is a few male sexual predators to make it a very serious issue.

Originally Posted by Pine to Vine

I don't plan to hunt down any more unicorns with you, and will simply reiterate the comments I spelled out a few pages back:

No problem. Since you seem to think that it's only an issue if men are overrunning the women's restroom and there isn't a problem with the very real possibility of a few men using this as a tool for sexual predatory assaults, I guess we'll never agree.

I just can't understand why you'd trade the safety of woman for the convenience of some transsexuals.

[marksmu]

Originally Posted by Pine to Vine

I don't plan to hunt down any more unicorns with you, and will simply reiterate the comments I spelled out a few pages back:

Its not hunting Unicorns. It happened in Dallas in 2012....Paul (Paula) Ray Witherspoon...Convicted TWICE of child molestation and a registered sex offender....BOTH of his convictions were for molesting FEMALE victims, not male.

Sex-Offender Status Complicates Transgender Woman's Dallas Hospital Bathroom-Usage Citation*|*Courtney O'Donnell

This is a sick twisted pervert who has transitioned to become a female potentially so he can be around more girls in the bathrooms without being arrested for it again.

While this is admittedly an extreme case, here you have a person who is obviously male, who has obvious male sexual desires, whose desires are quite deviant, who has proven he can not be trusted, who has transitioned to female...but now he can't be arrested or kicked out of a Houston establishment, b/c some ordinance is needed to protect the .000000000001% of transgendered people who MAY POTENTIALLY be embarrassed about the bathroom they have to use.

There is no logic to endangering/inconveniencing the 99.999999999% of the US to accommodate the feelings of so few. None at all.

[curbur]

Originally Posted by PedroMartinez

We KNOW FOR A FACT that women get raped in the women's room. Do you believe all of the stories of women being raped in restrooms are made up by these women?

What stories? You cited one instance in Toronto that's had an equal rights ordinance for a decade, and one other poster found one other instance. Out of all the cities that have these ordinances across the country or our own state already, all you were able to find was one or two documented cases of it happening, and that's enough to disenfranchise millions of Americans?

Why don't we disallow men from using an elevator when women are present? Otherwise, that one incident every 10-15 years will happen across a continent of 350+ million people.. it's a shame too, cause it's not like people got molested or raped before, but now that this one incident happened over 10-15 years' time, that figure has skyrocketed in Toronto. These molesters were on their last ropes and didn't have a prayer in the world as to how they were going to accomplish their ill-intentioned desires, but now with this new equal rights ordinance in place the sky is the limit. What could possibly stop them now, you know.. other than the fact that both of those actions are still as illegal as they were before the law passed?

Originally Posted by PedroMartinez

I just can't understand why you'd trade the safety of woman for the convenience of some transsexuals.

With all due respect, this statement is pretty telling of your attitude on this issue. As I've stated to you and others before, it's not just about convenience for transgendered people, it's about safety too. In fact, there have been a lot more documented cases of transgendered people's safety being in jeopardy for bathroom use as opposed to the few documented times we can find in the past 15-20 years in America or Canada, a population of 350+ million, many of which reside in cities where laws like HERO are in effect and have been so for decades, where you could say the same about a misused equality ordinance. You either are refusing to believe that transgendered people actually have a safety issue, or you are not concerned about their safety and are framing it as women's safety vs transgendered people's convenience to further your own point, or agenda if you will, since so many people on here like to depict lgbt rights supporters in that way already. It's definitely not because I've seen the pain these people endure on a daily basis or believe it's the right and fair thing to do, no no, it's because I have some evil agenda to ruin conservative values. Meetings are tentatively held at Numbers at 2:30am on Wednesdays; tastefully arranged pastries and ginger peach tea will be served.

[PedroMartinez]

Originally Posted by curbur

What stories?

Go to Google. Search "woman assaulted in restroom" and go through all the pages and pages of stories of women who have been sexually assaulted in bathrooms. Are you saying those are fake?

Originally Posted by curbur

What could possibly stop them now, you know, other than the fact that both of those actions are still as illegal as they were before the law passed?

Originally Posted by curbur

Do you lock your car doors? If so, why? Any criminal could just break the glass very easily to get in. The reason I lock my car doors is to reduce the events that would be crimes of opportunity. I also do it because breaking glass brings more attention.

This is the same reason why I'm against allowing men to go unhindered into the women's restroom. It can present a sexual assault as a crime of opportunity as well reducing the attention when a man goes into a women's restroom.

Originally Posted by curbur

With all due respect, this statement is pretty telling of your attitude on this issue. As I've stated to you and others before, it's not just about convenience for transgendered people, it's about safety too.

So, are you saying that a person who plans to commit the crime of assault will suddenly say, "Well, I'd like to break the law and beat up that man-girl, but since that business is no longer allowed to discriminate, I guess I wont."?

Seriously, is that what you think is going to happen?

Or, do you believe businesses have been hiring enforcers to assault transgender men who go into their women's restrooms?

HERO is about stopping businesses from questioning or forbidding men from using the women's restroom (and women for the men's room as well). This law has NOTHING to do with assaults, which are already illegal.

Please tell me, specifically, how HERO will stop any assault on a transgender going into a restroom?

I've already told you how HERO may put women in more danger and even showed a case.

BTW, has there ever been a single case of a business owner assaulting a transgender person because they used the "wrong bathroom"?

[jerbear30]

Originally Posted by PedroMartinez

Go to Google. Search "woman assaulted in restroom" and go through all the pages and pages of stories of women who have been sexually assaulted in bathrooms. Are you saying those are fake?

That's a self-defeating argument. 99% of these assaults (maybe 100, I'm not going to catalogue them) are done ALREADY, in places where there is no HERO law.

[War Beagle]

Again, the obvious question is why even bother having dedicated men's and women's restrooms at this point? If which restroom a person uses is determined by how they "feel" then just make them all unisex and be done with it.

[PedroMartinez]

Originally Posted by jerbear30

That's a self-defeating argument. 99% of these assaults (maybe 100, I'm not going to catalogue them) are done ALREADY, in places where there is no HERO law.

Where did you get that stat?

BTW, do you lock your car and home doors to prevent crimes or opportunity or do you have those windows that can't be broken and metal door jams?

[testmo]

Trans people arent trying to rape people they are trying to **** and **** (poopy and potty). if a rapist gets into any bathroom and assaults someone they get arrested there is no HERO is in place = rapists get to do whatever they want.

I dont understand the argument. HERO stays in place = more people become rapists? Rapists become more flagrant in trying to skirt the law?

I dont believe that is logical

[PedroMartinez]

Originally Posted by testmo

Trans people arent trying to rape people they are trying to **** and **** (poopy and potty). if a rapist gets into any bathroom and assaults someone they get arrested there is no HERO is in place = rapists get to do whatever they want.

I dont understand the argument. HERO stays in place = more people become rapists? Rapists become more flagrant in trying to skirt the law?

I dont believe that is logical

It's not true transgenders that are going to go around raping anyone.

It's the predatory men, just like the one in Canada, that will use HERO as a way to gain access to commit sexual assaults.

And once again, what specifically does HERO accomplish by not allowing businesses to stop or even question a man for going into the women's restroom without the fear of government sanctions?

[marksmu]

Originally Posted by testmo

Trans people arent trying to rape people they are trying to **** and **** (poopy and potty). if a rapist gets into any bathroom and assaults someone they get arrested there is no HERO is in place = rapists get to do whatever they want.

I dont understand the argument. HERO stays in place = more people become rapists? Rapists become more flagrant in trying to skirt the law?

I dont believe that is logical

See my above example. It has already happened once where a sick child offender transitioned to be female so he could use womens restrooms.

We are making exceptions for the exceptions...it is bad policy.