Houston residents asked to give input on Texas' $12 billion bullet train (Dallas: hotel, house)

[BaustinTejas]

Originally Posted by LocalPlanner

The HSR is supposed to be privately funded, though they are talking about using federally-supported financing of some sort.

Of course, by federal support they mean it will be too big to fail.


I really hate the idea using eminent domain to give land to a private firm. It's just all shades of wrong. The state government should just stop being cowards and own it, or not.

[oceangaia]

Not a chance. It isn't going to be $12 Billion. There isn't a big rail project that hasn't gone massively over budget. The first phase of California's bullet train is $10 Billion over budget. Government may throw good money after bad but private lenders will not. When it comes time to put up significant money, my bet is the financial backers bail out.

Just like with TGV 25 years ago. Contrary to folklore, it wasn't Southwest that killed TGV but that TGV couldn't post the bond money due when construction was supposed to start. The deadline was extended a year and they couldn't get the money. All SWA did was get an injunction preventing Txdot from using public money to cover the bond for TGV.

If you're dreaming of a fast trip at low cost, think again. Projected fare is $199 each way. SWA full fare is about $200, sometimes as low as $100. So the target customer is air travelers not those who are currently driving. It isn't going to take any cars off the road. By the time this thing would be completed we'll certainly have self-driving cars.

[LocalPlanner]

Originally Posted by oceangaia

Not a chance. It isn't going to be $12 Billion. There isn't a big rail project that hasn't gone massively over budget. The first phase of California's bullet train is $10 Billion over budget. Government may throw good money after bad but private lenders will not. When it comes time to put up significant money, my bet is the financial backers bail out.

Just like with TGV 25 years ago. Contrary to folklore, it wasn't Southwest that killed TGV but that TGV couldn't post the bond money due when construction was supposed to start. The deadline was extended a year and they couldn't get the money. All SWA did was get an injunction preventing Txdot from using public money to cover the bond for TGV.

If you're dreaming of a fast trip at low cost, think again. Projected fare is $199 each way. SWA full fare is about $200, sometimes as low as $100. So the target customer is air travelers not those who are currently driving. It isn't going to take any cars off the road. By the time this thing would be completed we'll certainly have self-driving cars.

Until self-driving cars start traveling at 150 mph (legally), I will still often continue to fly or, if it is available, take HSR. In fact, based on my experiences elsewhere, I find the train much more comfortable and less hassle, so it would be my preference - if it actually gets built.

To your other point, I am definitely skeptical that it will actually happen, because of capital cost. Passenger trains in the U.S. are incredibly, insanely expensive to build, and somehow a lot more expensive than in the rest of the world (this has been documented, and it's not a small difference). I just can't imagine that this thing will financially pan out, no matter how much market demand there would be.

Perhaps we should be promoting nice bus service, like the existing VonLane. I've heard it's quite nice. Or bring back the Trans Texas Corridor, and we could have an awesome new toll road.

[Sollaces]

I wonder how many 'commuters' will use it. Travel to Dallas and do what. . . Without a car?

I can see people in Dallas wanting to come down to go to special medical treatment in Houston. Like cancer treatment. Again, they'll need transportation from the terminal. That's another hour added on their trip once they find a ride.

It seems like one big headache.

[elnina]

Originally Posted by Sollaces

I wonder how many 'commuters' will use it. Travel to Dallas and do what. . . Without a car?

I can see people in Dallas wanting to come down to go to special medical treatment in Houston. Like cancer treatment. Again, they'll need transportation from the terminal. That's another hour added on their trip once they find a ride.

It seems like one big headache.

If that's the only concern - people could rent a Zipcar by the hour. The Zipcars would be parked at the bullet train terminals.
Car Sharing: An Alternative to Car Rental with Zipcar

[jerbear30]

I like the idea of public transportation, but this seems like it will have a pretty niche market. One potentially cool thing is that it would connect a lot of Amtrak users from Houston to the Texas Eagle.

[oceangaia]

Originally Posted by LocalPlanner

Until self-driving cars start traveling at 150 mph (legally), I will still often continue to fly or, if it is available, take HSR. In fact, based on my experiences elsewhere, I find the train much more comfortable and less hassle, so it would be my preference - if it actually gets built.

To your other point, I am definitely skeptical that it will actually happen, because of capital cost. Passenger trains in the U.S. are incredibly, insanely expensive to build, and somehow a lot more expensive than in the rest of the world (this has been documented, and it's not a small difference). I just can't imagine that this thing will financially pan out, no matter how much market demand there would be.

Perhaps we should be promoting nice bus service, like the existing VonLane. I've heard it's quite nice. Or bring back the Trans Texas Corridor, and we could have an awesome new toll road.

It's possible self-driving cars could go 150mph - safely - but unlikely due to fuel efficiency. But they don't need to go as fast to match point to point transit times since they would leave on your own schedule and depart/arrive from your own location. And the environment could be more comfortable and customized to your needs.

Anyway, my point was that it would draw most of it's customers from air travelers not land travelers so maybe it's endpoints need to be airports.

Everything costs more in the USA.

[predatorprey]

Originally Posted by oceangaia

Not a chance. It isn't going to be $12 Billion. There isn't a big rail project that hasn't gone massively over budget. The first phase of California's bullet train is $10 Billion over budget. Government may throw good money after bad but private lenders will not. When it comes time to put up significant money, my bet is the financial backers bail out.

Just like with TGV 25 years ago. Contrary to folklore, it wasn't Southwest that killed TGV but that TGV couldn't post the bond money due when construction was supposed to start. The deadline was extended a year and they couldn't get the money. All SWA did was get an injunction preventing Txdot from using public money to cover the bond for TGV.

If you're dreaming of a fast trip at low cost, think again. Projected fare is $199 each way. SWA full fare is about $200, sometimes as low as $100. So the target customer is air travelers not those who are currently driving. It isn't going to take any cars off the road. By the time this thing would be completed we'll certainly have self-driving cars.

What happened in the past is more likely to occur than what has never occurred. A rail project that is way over budget and under utilized. All that is history.

What this HSR project thinks it can do. Fantasy.

[projectmaximus]

Originally Posted by LocalPlanner

The HSR is supposed to be privately funded, though they are talking about using federally-supported financing of some sort.

Is this kinda like Brightline in FL? Basically, will they be profitable due to real estate development along the route? I couldnt find much info on it easily..maybe will decipher their website later on.

https://www.texascentral.com

Anyway, best of luck to the project. If it is indeed privately funded then more power to them!

[LocalPlanner]

Originally Posted by Sollaces

I wonder how many 'commuters' will use it. Travel to Dallas and do what. . . Without a car?

I can see people in Dallas wanting to come down to go to special medical treatment in Houston. Like cancer treatment. Again, they'll need transportation from the terminal. That's another hour added on their trip once they find a ride.

It seems like one big headache.

The primary audience for this is those who already travel by air between the two locations, and a large share of those are business travelers. How in the world do they manage without a car once they arrive at their destination airport?