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Look, I bet you and me actually share a lot of beliefs. I strongly respect people who beat the odds and made something of themselves through sheer will and determination. But what I'm saying is that not everybody can do that. If that was the case, there would be no poverty in the world. All countries would be rich and all people would thrive. Which is clearly not happening. Why some nations were able to get rich while others stagnated has a lot to do with the policies they implemented. Why is South Korea super rich when their brothers to the north are dirt poor? Different genes? No, theyre the same people. It's different policies and government institutions that foster that growth.
We still live in the best country of the world overall, if you ask me. But there are certain areas where we are starting to fall behind. And it's in part due to the economic policies perpetuated over the past 30-40 years. What could we improve? I could list tons of things here, but keeping it to taxation issues, a good taxation system is one that follows a few basic principles of taxation. These principles were formulated many years ago by Adam Smith, the father of modern economics. One of these principles talks about the ability to pay, and basically means that a good taxing system should be "progressive"...meaning the tax rates get progressively higher, the richer you are. Most countries in the world have progressive tax rates. The US collects federal taxes using a progressive rates system.
Currently, the state of TX, by not collecting income taxes (but still needing to collect revenue) is essentially giving a pass to very high earners and shifts the burden of taxation onto poorer households. That's what people mean when they say the tax system is "regressive". So instead of being progressive (more tax burden on the rich and less on the poor) is it reversed. Now the rich will still pay higher taxes overall (in dollar amounts) because they also consume more, live in larger houses, etc. But in percentage terms, reported to their incomes, the tax burden is smaller for very high earners. That in itself, is unfair if you ask me, but beyond that it has a number of serious consequences at the national level: we are falling behing all other developed nations in educational outcomes and health outcomes in particular. Again, your personal experience might be great. Some people are still able to access top level education and health in the US. But the country average is falling behind that of the other developed countries. We are richer than them, but we live less on average, have more illnesses, achieve less education, and so on. Why is that? Partly because most other developed countries have national policies when it comes to education and health, while we don't.
Now, what happened in the US over the past half century was that more and more taxation was shifted from the central authority to the local authorities. So from the federal level to the state and from the state to municipalities. With that also came the decentralization of spending. So we have created a system where huge chunks of this country (the poor chunks) cannot get access to good quality education and healthcare. Because most education is funded locally, you will have great schools with great funding in rich neighborhoods and terrible ones in poor ones. Same with health clinics and the likes. Now on some level, everywhere in the world the rich get better access to such things. So I'm not asking that everyone should be equal. But most other develop countries guarantee some basic level of education and health to everyone, no matter how rich or poor you are. We simply don't. And that leads to a vicious circle: it is very hard for someone to make something of himself when you start poor, go to horrible schools, can't afford proper nutrition and healthcare, etc. etc. Most countries see education as a national investment. Only we Americans see it as a personal investment. As if me getting educated only benefits myself personally, and nothing to society.
I'd better stop. Long story short: lower property and sales taxes and collect some income tax. It doesn't need to be as high as CA, but it needs to be something so the tax burden shifts a bit off of the poorest people in the state.
Thanks for the perspective. I see where the the differences in views comes from. I believe you are coming in at a macro level where I am using my life experiences and what I know around me vs things I dont know.
I was thinking about it last night and you stated something a few times to the effect of "I strongly respect people who beat the odds and made something of themselves through sheer will and determination". A similar statement was made in a different post about Bill Gates and his path. Almost like this is an outlier. From my perspective, almost everyone I know, everyone that I am very close to (I have a very VERY large extended family and know their network of friends) has a similar story to me. Came here with nothing. Grew up in the hood (ie didnt have access to exemplary schools) yet we all made it into great university programs. Doctors, lawyers, engineers, successful business owners. Some in my family are teachers by choice and they are VERY happy.
Im open to the change. If it helps the masses and does not stagnate innovation and business, Im all for it. Again, I am of the mentality of seeing the cards that are dealt and playing the hand. With a proposal of lower property taxes and inducing a state income tax, I would just shift my resources and time. Id pick up more property (dependent on tax rate of course) and shift my time on building that portfolio vs other sources of income. One of my uncles is in Orange Count did just that he played the hand he was dealt. He didnt open a business. He worked for a corporation (for health benefits), did not spend time trying to climb the corporate ladder, but spent all of his time and passion on his family and on picking up property in the 80s and 90s. I literally remember as a young boy visiting california and stopping at the side of the street in the hood and picking up a couch that somebody tossed and strapping it to his trunk. He is sitting on a minimum of 25 properties in Southern California and TO THIS DAY he still buys his clothes from garage sales. My wife's extended family all came here from war torn country like we did. Wife is a doctor, brother is a doctor, sister is a lawyer, cousins are doctors and engineers. Everyone grew up in the hood.
As I said, Im all for paying my share of whatever will help the masses. But will that really fix the problem? Does California have a "progressive" tax system? Are they really prospering more than we are? My last visit to my uncle I drove through DTLA and saw some pretty rough living.
I propose everything starts with the family. Teaching the right places to focus. Teaching financial acumen. Teaching wants vs needs. (real recent example - I was in the market for a Tesla. Love the technology and tech is my passion. Earlier this year made the decision to defer buying a new car and putting the money I had saved for my Tesla into the stock to support the tech) Teaching long term planning. Teaching focus on what you can control within your immediate sphere of reality. AND THEN once you have all those things covered, start helping others.
I hope all Texas conservatives think like you
To see them doing that when Texas turns blue
Hey man, no animosity from my side. As I have said consistently, I'll play the hand I am dealt. Also as I have stated, I dont focus much on politics, so if my thinking is labeled as conservative or Texas turning "blue", then ok.....but that doesnt mean anything to me. The whole of my country had to uproot and leave once with nothing but the clothes on their backs. Fact of the matter is, it really doesnt matter "where you are", what matters is "who you are with".
As I think about my 20 years in business, I dont think I can think of anything that impacted me between the different presidents, governors, mayors etc that have come and gone. I am grateful to live in this country which has provided my family to live "the american dream" as I truly believe it is the land of opportunity for anyone that wants to have it.
Thanks for the perspective. I see where the the differences in views comes from. I believe you are coming in at a macro level where I am using my life experiences and what I know around me vs things I dont know.
I was thinking about it last night and you stated something a few times to the effect of "I strongly respect people who beat the odds and made something of themselves through sheer will and determination". A similar statement was made in a different post about Bill Gates and his path. Almost like this is an outlier. From my perspective, almost everyone I know, everyone that I am very close to (I have a very VERY large extended family and know their network of friends) has a similar story to me. Came here with nothing. Grew up in the hood (ie didnt have access to exemplary schools) yet we all made it into great university programs. Doctors, lawyers, engineers, successful business owners. Some in my family are teachers by choice and they are VERY happy.
Im open to the change. If it helps the masses and does not stagnate innovation and business, Im all for it. Again, I am of the mentality of seeing the cards that are dealt and playing the hand. With a proposal of lower property taxes and inducing a state income tax, I would just shift my resources and time. Id pick up more property (dependent on tax rate of course) and shift my time on building that portfolio vs other sources of income. One of my uncles is in Orange Count did just that he played the hand he was dealt. He didnt open a business. He worked for a corporation (for health benefits), did not spend time trying to climb the corporate ladder, but spent all of his time and passion on his family and on picking up property in the 80s and 90s. I literally remember as a young boy visiting california and stopping at the side of the street in the hood and picking up a couch that somebody tossed and strapping it to his trunk. He is sitting on a minimum of 25 properties in Southern California and TO THIS DAY he still buys his clothes from garage sales. My wife's extended family all came here from war torn country like we did. Wife is a doctor, brother is a doctor, sister is a lawyer, cousins are doctors and engineers. Everyone grew up in the hood.
As I said, Im all for paying my share of whatever will help the masses. But will that really fix the problem? Does California have a "progressive" tax system? Are they really prospering more than we are? My last visit to my uncle I drove through DTLA and saw some pretty rough living.
I propose everything starts with the family. Teaching the right places to focus. Teaching financial acumen. Teaching wants vs needs. (real recent example - I was in the market for a Tesla. Love the technology and tech is my passion. Earlier this year made the decision to defer buying a new car and putting the money I had saved for my Tesla into the stock to support the tech) Teaching long term planning. Teaching focus on what you can control within your immediate sphere of reality. AND THEN once you have all those things covered, start helping others.
Nobody wants to hear that, it's always someone else's fault so shut up and pay up.
Thanks for the perspective. I see where the the differences in views comes from. I believe you are coming in at a macro level where I am using my life experiences and what I know around me vs things I dont know.
What you call your life experience, I call your bubble. This country would still be stuck in its past if all people thought like you. Hey, if I can do it, so can anyone else. Which is such a dangerous proposition on so many levels. Until you look at things from a macro perspective as you say, you really can't say much.
You think of yourself as coming from nothing, but based on your own perspective you actually have no clue that your "nothing" might have actually been something. Or that other people's nothing is worse than your nothing. Or that maybe you were simply luckier than others with nothings. When people mention Bill Gates as a college dropout, they fail to mention he was a Harvard dropout, which not many in this country have the opportunity to go to. Heck, many can't even dream about college.
As I said before, boomers like myself like to point at millennials and say they're lazy but fail to realize how much boomers benefited from large-scale government funded investments during their upbringing. And how back in the day, if you were willing to work hard, you were guarantee to make a decent living. This cannot be said about today's economy. I know people who work hard. Like really hard. And they barely scrape by.
But ultimately, I know I can't change your mind. It is hard to change the mind of someone who has it well. I just hope enough people who actually suffer at the hands of our current policies will change their mind. That is the real tragedy of our times. That because people are not properly educated, they can't even realize what's good for them and they fall prey to political scare tactics. And I worry that if this keeps going, the country will keep losing ground to the rest of the developed world. East Asia is already ahead of us in most metrics that actually matter: education, health, lifespan, happiness, etc.
What you call your life experience, I call your bubble. This country would still be stuck in its past if all people thought like you. Hey, if I can do it, so can anyone else. Which is such a dangerous proposition on so many levels. Until you look at things from a macro perspective as you say, you really can't say much.
You think of yourself as coming from nothing, but based on your own perspective you actually have no clue that your "nothing" might have actually been something. Or that other people's nothing is worse than your nothing. Or that maybe you were simply luckier than others with nothings. When people mention Bill Gates as a college dropout, they fail to mention he was a Harvard dropout, which not many in this country have the opportunity to go to. Heck, many can't even dream about college.
As I said before, boomers like myself like to point at millennials and say they're lazy but fail to realize how much boomers benefited from large-scale government funded investments during their upbringing. And how back in the day, if you were willing to work hard, you were guarantee to make a decent living. This cannot be said about today's economy. I know people who work hard. Like really hard. And they barely scrape by.
But ultimately, I know I can't change your mind. It is hard to change the mind of someone who has it well. I just hope enough people who actually suffer at the hands of our current policies will change their mind. That is the real tragedy of our times. That because people are not properly educated, they can't even realize what's good for them and they fall prey to political scare tactics. And I worry that if this keeps going, the country will keep losing ground to the rest of the developed world. East Asia is already ahead of us in most metrics that actually matter: education, health, lifespan, happiness, etc.
On the bubble piece - fair. So how do I go about getting REAL experience from a macro level? I am not really interesting in reading theory or articles. I am interested in real world journeys. How did you get out of the bubble as I would argue most people live in a bubble no?
On the coming from nothing piece - agreed. Everything is all relative. Thats why I give some indication on what my nothing is. So readers can have context. My family came here on a boat with the shirts on their backs. Thats it from a material stand point. What we had was our family....and that was my proposal to the challenges people face.
Im a gen X'er. So im not sure where I fall. But for the people you know that work "really hard and barely scrape by". Can you share more? Notice in all my post I discuss financial literacy. I dont say "just stop being lazy". So you know people who work really hard, are financially prudent (wants vs needs) and still only get by? I have not come across that in my "bubble".
On changing my mind. I already said I am open to a new framework multiple times. If you are trying to change my mind that having a core family structure is the most important piece towards the future success of you life, I guess yes....you will be hard pressed to change my mind on that I guess.
On the bubble piece - fair. So how do I go about getting REAL experience from a macro level? I am not really interesting in reading theory or articles. I am interested in real world journeys. How did you get out of the bubble as I would argue most people live in a bubble no?
On the coming from nothing piece - agreed. Everything is all relative. Thats why I give some indication on what my nothing is. So readers can have context. My family came here on a boat with the shirts on their backs. Thats it from a material stand point. What we had was our family....and that was my proposal to the challenges people face.
Im a gen X'er. So im not sure where I fall. But for the people you know that work "really hard and barely scrape by". Can you share more? Notice in all my post I discuss financial literacy. I dont say "just stop being lazy". So you know people who work really hard, are financially prudent (wants vs needs) and still only get by? I have not come across that in my "bubble".
On changing my mind. I already said I am open to a new framework multiple times. If you are trying to change my mind that having a core family structure is the most important piece towards the future success of you life, I guess yes....you will be hard pressed to change my mind on that I guess.
I understand your frustration, but I think your anger needs to be focused to the banking/elites/globalists that have controlled the economy for decades regardless what political party is in power.
You keep thinking that just increasing taxes on the "rich" is going to change things. Eventually the general population ends up paying no matter what.
Interesting you cite Zucman's work. Or at least a graph from his work. His tax proposals actually go well beyond progressive income taxes. He actually proposes wealth taxes, which I would agree with in principles, but I'm not sure how those could be implemented and how well could one measure wealth, especially for the top 0.01% you refer to. They are typically very good at hiding income and I bet they could hide wealth too.
On the bubble piece - fair. So how do I go about getting REAL experience from a macro level? I am not really interesting in reading theory or articles. I am interested in real world journeys. How did you get out of the bubble as I would argue most people live in a bubble no?
Travel. See how people live in other countries. Live, study, and work abroad if that's possible. Experience their education and health system. Experience their consumer protection services. In the absence of that, the only way you can get educated is by reading. You don't need to read opinion or academic journals if you don't like those. Just look up data on international comparisons in different measure of human development.
Quote:
Originally Posted by donblackie
On the coming from nothing piece - agreed. Everything is all relative. Thats why I give some indication on what my nothing is. So readers can have context. My family came here on a boat with the shirts on their backs. Thats it from a material stand point. What we had was our family....and that was my proposal to the challenges people face.
Im a gen X'er. So im not sure where I fall. But for the people you know that work "really hard and barely scrape by". Can you share more? Notice in all my post I discuss financial literacy. I dont say "just stop being lazy". So you know people who work really hard, are financially prudent (wants vs needs) and still only get by? I have not come across that in my "bubble".
So get out of your bubble and meet people.
Quote:
Originally Posted by donblackie
On changing my mind. I already said I am open to a new framework multiple times. If you are trying to change my mind that having a core family structure is the most important piece towards the future success of you life, I guess yes....you will be hard pressed to change my mind on that I guess.
So what about those who are not so fortunate to have a core family structure? My own parents divorced when I was 3 and I grew up with a single mother. Some people don't even have that. Not to say that family is not important, but you can't simply disregard millions of people for not having the luxury of having a strong family behind them. Some of those people can still become doctors, inventors, teachers, etc. if they are provided with basic nutrition, education, and healthcare through their early years. Unfortunately, because that basic help is non-existent, some end up becoming criminals, drug addicts, etc.
Others see spending on basic education and health as an investment. Only we (at least some of us) see it as a handout. Let me ask you this: do you know how much money we spend each year on policing and incarcerating people who committed economically driven crimes? I'm not talking about killers and such. I'm simply talking about petty crime that is economically motivated. The rest of the developed world already realized that shifting that money away from prisons towards schools leads to much lower crime rates down the road. We still need to learn that lesson.
Currently, the state of TX, by not collecting income taxes (but still needing to collect revenue) is essentially giving a pass to very high earners and shifts the burden of taxation onto poorer households. That's what people mean when they say the tax system is "regressive". So instead of being progressive (more tax burden on the rich and less on the poor) is it reversed. Now the rich will still pay higher taxes overall (in dollar amounts) because they also consume more, live in larger houses, etc. But in percentage terms, reported to their incomes, the tax burden is smaller for very high earners. That in itself, is unfair if you ask me, but beyond that it has a number of serious consequences at the national level: we are falling behing all other developed nations in educational outcomes and health outcomes in particular. Again, your personal experience might be great. Some people are still able to access top level education and health in the US. But the country average is falling behind that of the other developed countries. We are richer than them, but we live less on average, have more illnesses, achieve less education, and so on. Why is that? Partly because most other developed countries have national policies when it comes to education and health, while we don't.
To be honest, I am not against state income tax and much lower property tax. Like in Delaware.
It makes doing nothing and just spending time in your house a lot easier. You can save some money, quit job for a while to enjoy life and your property tax won't drain your budget very quickly. I get that. In a future I might be interested in downshifting in FL or DE states.
But system is system. Instead of complaining online, get into politics and try to change it.
Regarding the segregation, it's a normal thing. That's a foundation of everything in this country. Most liberal people live behind tall wrought iron fences with 24/7 surveillance in Beverly Hills. They love spreading their liberal ideas around the world but they don't want to give up their gated lifestyle.
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