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I merely commented to a sort of dare..... to show where Houston has less trees, or forested regions. Noting the closer you get to the gulf. The less trees you might see. Nothing false about that. No hate, no claims of being ugly. The most forested regions of Houston are suburban too. Just not toward the gulf. I didn't see a limitation mentioned on city proper even by the OP's original post on 2009. I'm sure improvements in its core, inner-loop and the rest have been made since then too.
Your post is all over the place (as usual), so I will simply spell it out for you:
Where You Were Correct:
-There were areas of Houston that naturally did not have much trees
-Northern Houston is more forested than southern Houston as a whole
Where You Were Incorrect:
-The areas without trees in Houston were "arid or semi-arid" looking
-The landscape in ALL of southern Houston/coastal areas was drab in winter.
-That a more "tropical look" wasn't able to be supported naturally (only half true, and the reason isn't climate related, as I've shown).
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavePa
But I'm not taking it further to a dare to find less tree-filled city proper regions.
That was the point of the post I initially responded to; it talked about areas/neighborhoods supposedly lacking in trees.
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Originally Posted by DavePa
I think it would be great if downtown Houston became more SUB-TROPICAL LOOKING. ESPECIALLY DOWNTOWN. Like the oasis of the Aquarium restaurant grounds with gorgeous date palms. Instead most areas do not look like a sub-tropical region. Though ---> capable of supporting tropical foliage and palms. Knowing if planted by the city? It must be maintained.
The South is a subtropical region. Many common trees in Houston (like the live oak) come from the South. Therefore, the trees in Houston are subtropical, and the city does indeed look like a subtropical region. There's more to it than just palms: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quercus_virginiana
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavePa
Actually, I'd expect more tropical-like lushness toward the gulf?
But these comparisons to Florida having grasslands and comparing Houston regions to a rainforest in Argentina? OK.... I never said that Houston was ugly or called these more gulf regions ugly (never did).
Again, read carefully. I brought up grasslands in Florida, as well as the Pampas GRASSLANDS of Argentina (that country has more than just rainforests) to demonstrate two points:
- to show how soil conditions can influence natural landcover type
- to show that plenty of subtropical/tropical areas have grasslands (not mutually exclusive at all).
I never said that you talked about Houston's aesthetics, so I don't know why you keep bringing that up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavePa
But seems any sea rise will not be good for coastal Texas in salt-water already affects it.
You could just say Houston has VARIED areas lush forested areas and neighborhoods of majestic oaks to evergreens and more grassland regions toward the south where trees and forest are less, soil more sandy and marshlands.
Yes. There are more grasslands/marshes in the southern areas of Houston, due to soil/water-level conditions, but the entire metro area can support lush, forest-style vegetation, due to the climate. Areas that don't have as ideal soil would simply have to do the necessary preparations before getting strongly into the gardening/cultivation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavePa
*** I would certainly wish for Houston's core plant more tropical foliage and flowing date palms like by the Aquarium restaurant downtown. Could definatly set it aside from Dallas then.
More can indeed be planted, but the amount currently (along with all the street trees seen in Houston) is more than enough to set it apart from Dallas.
Your post is all over the place (as usual), so I will simply spell it out for you:
Where You Were Correct:
-There were areas of Houston that naturally did not have much trees
-Northern Houston is more forested than southern Houston as a whole
Where You Were Incorrect:
-The areas without trees in Houston were "arid or semi-arid" looking
-The landscape in ALL of southern Houston/coastal areas was drab in winter.
-That a more "tropical look" wasn't able to be supported naturally (only half true, and the reason isn't climate related, as I've shown).
Actually Southern Houston can support a forest. The empty lots around Alief when I was growing up in the '90s was heavily forested with oak trees. Dave may have spent time around Clear Lake visiting NASA and that area looks like the Florida picture due to the salt air and ground water since SE Harris County is very close to the Gulf coastline and with Galveston Bay. TxDOT likes to plant palm trees along IH45, especially on the BW8 interchange.
Actually Southern Houston can support a forest. The empty lots around Alief when I was growing up in the '90s was heavily forested with oak trees. Dave may have spent time around Clear Lake visiting NASA and that area looks like the Florida picture due to the salt air and ground water since SE Harris County is very close to the Gulf coastline and with Galveston Bay. TxDOT likes to plant palm trees along IH45, especially on the BW8 interchange.
I know, I was arguing for that the whole time. The entire Houston Metro has a climate that forests can thrive in.
I'm not sure what this has to do with Chicago or NYC. This term -ugly toward Houston is ridicules anyway but it does mean these other cities have a Grandeur that Houston still needs to create. This Swamplot plan is nice ..... but not quite changing the core but to extend, connect parts of the bayou and low-rise buildings lining the new waterway.
If it's meant to go up against Chicago's downtown riverwalk skyscraper-canyon and new projects? Not that by far. But nice is the best claim. I see no move to incorporate a more Tropical look to downtown? Like adding Palms Houston can support. But still Houston has its Aquarium restaurant look of tropical palms that it still doesn't seem to want to make its core more like that?
Getting more people out of the Tunnels and on the surface would also be a good thing. More people living in downtown is great..... but if just entering the tunnels is their trek to work? The Street-surface will still not gain the increase in vibrancy it should have. Would be great to see a Elevated train to connect the CBD's
Chicago's still redeveloping its river and ongoing out from its core. As new developments extend south and north. It's old Post Office is under redevelopment with the riverfront revamped in green-space and just south of there a 62-acre riverfront new neighborhood of high-rises has begun. Though changes if any of theses sights Amazon chose.
Just South of Chicago's Loop is a 62-acre riverfront area under redevelopment started.
I'm not sure what this has to do with Chicago or NYC. This term -ugly toward Houston is ridicules anyway but it does mean these other have a Grandeur that Houston still needs to create.
This thread isn't about NYC or Chicago, it's about Houston.
Quote:
This Swamplot plan is nice ..... but not quite changing the core but to extend, connect parts of the bayou and low-rise buildings lining the new waterway.
...which would change the core, as it enhances connectivity with the natural feature.
Quote:
If it's meant to go up against Chicago's downtown riverwalk skyscraper-canyon and new projects? Not that by far. But nice is the best claim.
The project is simply for Houston, not out of competition.
Quote:
I see no move to incorporate a more Tropical look to downtown? Like adding Palms Houston can support. But still Houston has its Aquarium restaurant look of tropical palms that it still doesn't seem to want to make its core more like that?
Because there are alot of myths people have about the plants, which discourage their use. Once these myths fade, you'll start to see more and more being planted.
Quote:
Getting more people out of the Tunnels and on the surface would also be a good thing. More people living in downtown is great..... but if just entering the tunnels is their trek to work? The Street-surface will still not gain the increase in vibrancy it should have. Would be great to see a Elevated train to connect the CBD's
The tunnels bear no relation to street-vibrancy (see: Montreal). Nevertheless, I still dislike them, as it implies that the people of Houston fear (and are ashamed of) the city's natural setting, rather than actively trying to integrate it to the city experience.
Quote:
Chicago's still redeveloping its river and ongoing out from its core. As new developments extend south and north. It's old Post Office is under redevelopment with the riverfront revamped in green-space and just south of there a 62-acre riverfront new neighborhood of high-rises has begun. Though changes if any of theses sights Amazon chose.
Just South of Chicago's Loop is a 62-acre riverfront area under redevelopment started.
In reality, Houston still is largely a clean-slate regarding urban development. So there is ample ability to set a focus for design, and if that focus is eastwards, then Houston can incorporate the entire length of Buffalo Bayou to the fabric: all the way down to Burnett Bay; areas of old industry will have to be repurposed, though.
This thread isn't about NYC or Chicago, it's about Houston.
Below is the OP's original Post.
Quote:
Originally Posted by stoneclaw
I mean seriously, this isn't one of those threads trying to lift Houston up by tearing down another city, but why don't people call every spade a spade? Houston is a gigantic city with freeways, some lined with atrocious billboards and run-down buildings, and some others lined with lush green trees and towering old and new skyscrapers. Some areas where you can see the many skylines in Houston that can make you feel like you're in a New York City or L.A. Other freeways offer views of the smoke stacks from the industrial factories while others offer a different view that a lot of cities lack... Water (gulf).
So clearly Houston can't be classified as one thing. Why doesn't Chicago catch as much heat for having that big rusty old el train bridge running right through it's downtown? Or Philadelphia's narrow raggedy streets and run-down buildings, or NYC's dirty streets? It brings me to wonder why "Life" as people live it in Houston is only viewed as ugly? The last time I checked, NYC, Chicago, or LA, were not pretty cities either. True LA has mountains in its backdrop but the thick smog covering the mountain horizon hardly makes it an art painting. NYC has the dirtiest streets where you don't see the roaches like in Houston, but hairy rats running across the street. Oh add some of the dirty bums you see walking up and down, not just the ones you see hanging out at gas stations in Third Ward.
If you want Beauty, go to Colorado. Clean pristine air, blue skies but don't expect much character out of the people. Why can't Houston get love for the character it has? The museums, shopping, restaurants, theater district? What's the deal?
You see you chose to Post in a thread started in 2009 (a nice long run) to post a Houston extension of some waterway from the bayou. Just as the topic was "Why Houston some call ugly" NOT TRUE OF COURSE... But the OP suggest CHICAGO, NYC and LA as UGLY. Calling these cities NOT PRETTY EITHER. So the thread then was ongoing for years being reawakened a few times.
So it isn't just about Houston. It's in the Houston forum yes..... but your post suggest a BEAUTIFICATION Project in downtown Houston...... I merely associated it to Chicago's BEAUTIFICATION ALREADY DONE to its river waterway. SO NEITHER ARE OR WILL BE UGLY.
But really if merely to highlight HOUSTON ALONE PROJECTS? This wasn't the right thread unless ..... the cities in the topic are also valid to comment on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Texyn
...which would change the core, as it enhances connectivity with the natural feature. The project is simply for Houston, not out of competition.
Well the premise of the thread is a Houston COMPETING but unfairly knocked down .... so these new bayou extending projects seem to show how BEAUTY is being ADDED to Houston and given that the thread added other cities as UGLY in there cores. What one is doing and done to its riverway in enhancing it TO BEAUTIFY Chicago's river. So I interjected some projects done and proposed to be next to come.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Texyn
Because there are alot of myths people have about the plants, which discourage their use. Once these myths fade, you'll start to see more and more being planted.
Well as I said, I'd hope Houston (starting with downtown new projects) could add more tropical Palms and foliage to the mix. (they do need more upkeep as to why it isn't also?) Surely homeowners could do their part too? Just not that important maybe .... or to those doing the city planning projects.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Texyn
The tunnels bear no relation to street-vibrancy (see: Montreal). Nevertheless, I still dislike them, as it implies that the people of Houston fear (and are ashamed of) the city's natural setting, rather than actively trying to integrate it to the city experience.
Tunnels with all the features from eateries, shopping, getting a haircut to banking in the network .... certainly has many need not surface till they exit the Parking Garage they originally entered the tunnels in? Also Houston's much longer hot summers add to the tunnel use? Even Chicago has a tunnel network never advertised..... I was surprised to learn of. But don't expect to shop, get a haircut through them.... though a branch does go thru its Macy's in the Loop in a lower-shopping level. They are a convenience in bad weather. But not a replacement to the surface with ALL the attributes a Core should have street-level.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Texyn
Good for Chicago.
In reality, Houston still is largely a clean-slate regarding urban development. So there is ample ability to set a focus for design, and if that focus is eastwards, then Houston can incorporate the entire length of Buffalo Bayou to the fabric: all the way down to Burnett Bay; areas of old industry will have to be repurposed, though.
The irony is Northern cities have land cleared of past industry too. Some have areas of lost housing to blight that one day will see rebirth too. Chicago's river now provides land once industry was on to .... BE A CLEAN-SLATE TOO. Houston had older 50s ranch-homes on large-sized lots that were dispensable to be replaced all through the inner-loop. Even other older suburbs with newer bigger McMansions replacing older ranch homes..... apparently not as well built or just not worth saving?? Some cities had old renewal (mistakes sometimes) level whole old neighborhoods. St Louis got its Arch and Riverfront parkland that way. Chicago can just fill in a section of vast Lake Michigan to add more Parkland. As it did for over 100-years now. Nearly half of its downtown and Grand downtown Parks ..... were once part of Lake Michigan. The river was reversed even to stop polluting the lake. Now locks control a flow out from the lake to eventually the Mississippi river.
We are in a era still of the Sunbelt region overall..... booming more. More favorable tax structure to Big businesses to still locate and mild winters where we have air-conditioning for hot longer summers.
You see you chose to Post in a thread started in 2009 (a nice long run) to post a Houston extension of some waterway from the bayou. Just as the topic was "Why Houston some call ugly" NOT TRUE OF COURSE... But the OP suggest CHICAGO, NYC and LA as UGLY. Calling these cities NOT PRETTY EITHER. So the thread then was ongoing for years being reawakened a few times.
So it isn't just about Houston. It's in the Houston forum yes..... but your post suggest a BEAUTIFICATION Project in downtown Houston...... I merely associated it to Chicago's BEAUTIFICATION ALREADY DONE to its river waterway. SO NEITHER ARE OR WILL BE UGLY.
But really if merely to highlight HOUSTON ALONE PROJECTS? This wasn't the right thread unless ..... the cities in the topic are also valid to comment on.
Quote:
Well the premise of the thread is a Houston COMPETING but unfairly knocked down .... so these new bayou extending projects seem to show how BEAUTY is being ADDED to Houston and given that the thread added other cities as UGLY in there cores. What one is doing and done to its riverway in enhancing it TO BEAUTIFY Chicago's river. So I interjected some projects done and proposed to be next to come.
Nope. The thread is entirely about Houston, don't get confused with the title. NYC, Chicago, and other cities were listed by the OP simply because they wanted to provide examples to clarify the question being asked; they didn't create the thread for competition.
Quote:
Well as I said, I'd hope Houston (starting with downtown new projects) could add more tropical Palms and foliage to the mix. (they do need more upkeep as to why it isn't also?) Surely homeowners could do their part too? Just not that important maybe .... or to those doing the city planning projects.
Well, they will eventually. Do as I did and suggest the idea to some groups who play a role in Houston's landscaping: Houston Parks Board
Quote:
Tunnels with all the features from eateries, shopping, getting a haircut to banking in the network .... certainly has many need not surface till they exit the Parking Garage they originally entered the tunnels in? Also Houston's much longer hot summers add to the tunnel use? Even Chicago has a tunnel network never advertised..... I was surprised to learn of. But don't expect to shop, get a haircut through them.... though a branch does go thru its Macy's in the Loop in a lower-shopping level. They are a convenience in bad weather. But not a replacement to the surface with ALL the attributes a Core should have street-level.
I don't like the tunnels for reasons I've mentioned, but vibrant street-level life can still exist even with their presence. Montreal has a tunnel system even more expansive than Houston's, and still, vibrant street-life is present there.
Quote:
The irony is Northern cities have land cleared of past industry too. Some have areas of lost housing to blight that one day will see rebirth too. Chicago's river now provides land once industry was on to .... BE A CLEAN-SLATE TOO. Houston had older 50s ranch-homes on large-sized lots that were dispensable to be replaced all through the inner-loop. Even other older suburbs with newer bigger McMansions replacing older ranch homes..... apparently not as well built or just not worth saving?? Some cities had old renewal (mistakes sometimes) level whole old neighborhoods. St Louis got its Arch and Riverfront parkland that way. Chicago can just fill in a section of vast Lake Michigan to add more Parkland. As it did for over 100-years now. Nearly half of its downtown and Grand downtown Parks ..... were once part of Lake Michigan. The river was reversed even to stop polluting the lake. Now locks control a flow out from the lake to eventually the Mississippi river.
We are in a era still of the Sunbelt region overall..... booming more. More favorable tax structure to Big businesses to still locate and mild winters where we have air-conditioning for hot longer summers.
I know. When I say "clean-slate," I refer to the fact that that urban core of Houston doesn't have the established built focus that Chicago, and other more urban cities have. Meaning that it isn't too late for the city to chose paths that involve, say, building along more of Buffalo Bayou.
The other cities already have plentiful focus and build density along key areas. But yet, as you mention, they STILL are improving their urban cores with new developments. Meaning that good things will happen, so far you have the mindset for it.
Houston happens to be one of my favorite cities. What I like about Houston is that it doesn't pretend to be what it's not. It's not uppity like Dallas and their hoods have interesting history connected to them. I don't find Houston ugly at all and happen to like the many freeways that provide a straight shot to different sides of town.
Yeah, I think we all can agree the term "ugly" is ridicules. Just there are things that hurt Houston (especially in the past) like the "ditch-system" in neighborhoods. In some if looks rural to a bit 3rd world. Still adds little to aesthetics.
I've seen inner-loop whole areas with new infill and the "ditches" are kept and even ugly power-line poles in front of totally new multi-residential complexes and more closer-knit housing new. Generally they make it a grassy more uniform ditch..... But it is part of the Houston way. Some I've seen where one side developers leave the ditch and the other side a developer curbed it over as a normal street.
Another aspect not unique to Houston.... but it still has some darn ugly huge parking garages downtown. On main streets they kill connectivity as none were required to add street-level businesses. Garages can be concealed with exterior shops street-level. Some cities zone for it in their cores to maintain vibrancy while still adding parking. Same with the Podium-style high-rise/skyscraper. Though its ground-level has a garage. It can still have retail along the street. Houston does have some huge plain monoliths of Parking garages.
But of course improvements get made but scars of mistakes of the past still remain. Certainly, this isn't all Houston. But aspects that some might have used ugly for. Terms like sterile if street-life is little.
Maybe it is better not being saved? Just doesn't fit into the New Houston....
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guess that's its normal look on Main St yet... ?
Don't you wish for MORE LIKE THIS LEFT? 
Seems empty? Any bets? After all it's Houston. 
