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I'll provide another scenario for "magical" $15/hr.
- Fast food sales go up. Cause the poor love their fast food, give them money and they'll spend it. After all, to us McD's is crap food, but to the poor, eating out is treating themselves. Fast food prices don't rise because more is being sold. No, they still go up. If the margin drops below the company's set standard prices WILL go up.
- Car sales go up. Because there's nothing a poor person wants more than to get rid of that 2002 Oldsmobuick. They'll finance it, so there's debt involved, which causes the US money supply to go up. So then the "poor" people who may or may not be stuck working fast food because they are either undereducated or unmotivated to move up will make further poor financial decisions by going deeper into debt, which puts them right back into needing to make more money and now demanding $20 per hour to flip a burger.
- Movie ticket sales go up. Because when the poor want to treat themselves, movies give a good bang for the buck. Also, as a side effect, more movies for families (kid's movies) are made, because money. Doesn't correlate. You're making assumptions here. You're assuming that these folks are going to spend all the extra income they make on things other than necessities to get them out of their poor financial situation. See my second response above.
- Obesity rates among those people go down. Because when you're a poor family, the easiest way to treat yourself is to buy the kids candy. Obesity rates go down? You just said poor people will eat more fast food, which has some of the WORST caloric ratings of any food you can buy. I don't think eating more candy is going to shrink the obesity rates.
- There are fewer poor. Not because they died or anything, but maybe they can actually get that training as a phlebotomist that costs $1000 that they never had and put themselves on a higher tier in the work world. No more smelling like french fries when they come home. If they spend all their extra income on the above, where will they get the money to go to school? In a closer reality, many of them (not all) will still make poor decisions and choices, which are going to leave them stuck in a dead end job and still be broke and complaining that they don't make enough money.
- Fewer children born into poverty. And only partially because there are fewer in poverty. The expense of paying $30 per month for birth control isn't such a burden when you have an extra $360 ($3*30hr/wk*4 weeks) per month. Let's say they buy a little nicer car and already made car payments before. If you are making a car payment that's an extra $100 per month you're down to $260 per month. Let's say they decide to eat more fast food. Now they're spending on average of $40 per week more than previously. So now we're down to $100 of extra income left over per month. Let's go to the movies once. A family of 4 will cost about $40 for movie tickets. So now we're down to $60 of extra income left over per month. Below you mention getting a new phone. Tack on the higher cell phone bill with data and there goes the $60 per month you had left over. Whose paying for the birth control?
- Electronics sales go up. Because no one wants to have a CRT anymore. And that burner flip phone they've used for 4 years sucks. See my last post.
Etc, etc. Just think about it. What do poor people want? They want to relax, have free time, have better material possessions.
This is what we all want. But you cannot get there working menial jobs in fast food or similar places. You MUST have a desire to succeed and advance and do everything you can to get there. Working in fast food as a burger cook for 10 years is NEVER going to get you anywhere but where you already are.
Now, try to think of something you are for. Something that will help solve the problem. Rather than define yourself as "I am against this" and "I am against that." Give us a scenario where you improve the economy. Be positive. Find a solution. What is your fix?
(Edited to add: Oh, and we have English lit grads serving us Big Macs now.)
Most fast food places are franchised anyway. So its the small business owners who have to fork over extra money, and its their bottom line that gets hurt, not BK corp or McDonalds Corp. The small business owner gets hurt the most for increased wages in fast food.
I'd argue the economic principles of Capitalism but that would be a waste of my time and yours. You obviously have a degree in Economic Progressivism so you wouldn't believe anything I said anyways.
LOL, that's your way of saying "You're right, I give up." The petty insults don't bother me. Claiming to be smarter and not doing anything to back it up doesn't either. You believe in fighting against a living wage because that's what your Wall Street Overlords have taught you. MCDs (and all other fast food) won't raise the price of their food at all, or not significantly. They can't. Too much competition. They'll just unfortunately have to dig in to their revenue streams to keep their franchises open. They'll lower the costs of the franchises themselves. Their CEOs will have to make do with only giving their grand kids 7 series BMWs this year instead of Bentleys. Life will go on.
LOL, that's your way of saying "You're right, I give up." The petty insults don't bother me. Claiming to be smarter and not doing anything to back it up doesn't either. You believe in fighting against a living wage because that's what your Wall Street Overlords have taught you. MCDs (and all other fast food) won't raise the price of their food at all, or not significantly. They can't. Too much competition. They'll just unfortunately have to dig in to their revenue streams to keep their franchises open. They'll lower the costs of the franchises themselves. Their CEOs will have to make do with only giving their grand kids 7 series BMWs this year instead of Bentleys. Life will go on.
And this is how the 99%ers have clouded your perception as well. There are extremes on both sides of the fence. However that doesn't mean either are completely the norm.
You make mention of the franchise CEOs and elude to the money they make. But ask yourself this. If folks DID get $15/hr or whatever arbritrary number you want to throw out, what has to increase to compensate? Food prices.
Companies are in business to make money. If they don't keep their margins in a certain range, they can shut down shop. So they raise food prices to compensate for increased wages. The consumer now complains that food prices go up. (Are you willing to pay $10-15 for one Big Mac meal? Probably not) For consumers to keep going, they have to either spend more money or stop going as often. If consumers stop going there, the margins still drop. So how is the company supposed to pacify everyone?
Raising the price of anything creates a chain reaction in which EVERYTHING has to increase to compensate. You can't rob from Peter to pay Paul and expect nothing to happen down the road.
- "Quality" people are waiting in the wings for the drudge jobs. If only they paid more, they'd quit what they have so they can come home smelling like french fries. Or are these higher quality employees are currently not occupying a job position? Just hangin'. Not unemployed, just biding their time. (???)
Let's suppose your boss decided to "recompete" your job, how many people do you think will apply for your job?
Now let's suppose your boss decided to raise your current job with a 40% increase in pay, how many MORE people will apply for your job?
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- The current job holders are poor quality. When wages increase they will be fired. (???)
If your boss can find someone who is FAR MORE qualified than you, with a new opening, would he hire you instead of someone who is far more qualified?
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- Starbucks is the goal we strive for.
Don't know about you but I have a much more pleasant experience whenever I go in Starbucks or the Publix. Do you think they pay minimum wage?
And this is how the 99%ers have clouded your perception as well. There are extremes on both sides of the fence. However that doesn't mean either are completely the norm.
That's funny. Never heard of 99%ers. Perhaps you mean 99ers. Which changes what you are trying to say entirely.
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You make mention of the franchise CEOs and elude to the money they make. But ask yourself this. If folks DID get $15/hr or whatever arbritrary number you want to throw out, what has to increase to compensate? Food prices.
They can try to increase the price of their food. But it will suddenly put McDs in a place they don't want to be competing against sit down chains, fast casual places and premium hamburger spots. Unless their service, experience and quality increase dramatically they won't survive.
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Companies are in business to make money. If they don't keep their margins in a certain range, they can shut down shop. So they raise food prices to compensate for increased wages. The consumer now complains that food prices go up. (Are you willing to pay $10-15 for one Big Mac meal? Probably not) For consumers to keep going, they have to either spend more money or stop going as often. If consumers stop going there, the margins still drop.
That's what I just said. So McD's and others will have to maintain pricing and increase sales.
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Raising the price of anything creates a chain reaction in which EVERYTHING has to increase to compensate. You can't rob from Peter to pay Paul and expect nothing to happen down the road.
No, I imagine they'll sell more food as a result. I imagine other companies will see gains as a result. I imagine entitlement spending will drop. Those are the good things I expect Peter to do down the road to make up for it.
They can try to increase the price of their food. But it will suddenly put McDs in a place they don't want to be competing against sit down chains, fast casual places and premium hamburger spots. Unless their service, experience and quality increase dramatically they won't survive. .
Therein lies the problem. If ONLY McD's prices would go up, you'd be right. That's not the case. Almost all food service that is not extremely high-end is minimum wage or very close to it. Not to mention the waitresses in said places. So now, it costs you more to go to a sit-down restaurant, too. People still choose McD's because of the price ratio cushion they'll still have. The prices would go up, but so would everyone else's because labor is one of, if not the biggest expenses in any business.
There would probably be a year or so where a $15 min would be helpful to people. After that, $15 would just be the new $9.
Therein lies the problem. If ONLY McD's prices would go up, you'd be right. That's not the case. Almost all food service that is not extremely high-end is minimum wage or very close to it. Not to mention the waitresses in said places. So now, it costs you more to go to a sit-down restaurant, too. People still choose McD's because of the price ratio cushion they'll still have. The prices would go up, but so would everyone else's because labor is one of, if not the biggest expenses in any business.
There would probably be a year or so where a $15 min would be helpful to people. After that, $15 would just be the new $9.
Exactly.
Food service jobs are not meant to be lifelong careers. When people try to make careers out of them it tells me that they don't care whether or not they actually improve their quality of life. If they want better wages, they need to start working their way up the ladder. I started my career at McDonald's 16 years ago. I'm not there anymore for a reason.
Therein lies the problem. If ONLY McD's prices would go up, you'd be right. That's not the case. Almost all food service that is not extremely high-end is minimum wage or very close to it. Not to mention the waitresses in said places. So now, it costs you more to go to a sit-down restaurant, too. People still choose McD's because of the price ratio cushion they'll still have. The prices would go up, but so would everyone else's because labor is one of, if not the biggest expenses in any business.
People who work commission and earn tips would not be affected. There are already exemptions in writing that allow restaurant owners pay waitresses and bartenders less then minimum wage legally.
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There would probably be a year or so where a $15 min would be helpful to people. After that, $15 would just be the new $9.
That's the line, yes. That's what they want you to believe. Everything will just get pushed up that much more money as if it didn't happen. But it isn't true. But, like I said - we can just wait and see what happens in SeaTac. I loved while watching Fox one day as the pundits brought all the arguments presented here as definites, but one guy finally said, "Isnt this what America is all about?" I'm paraphrasing. "A group of people have decided to try something and we are seeing democracy at work. Let's just wait and see what happens."
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Do you think they pay minimum wage? 
